You don’t really want to breed polled to polled…there are chances you’ll get a hermi. I know there are breeders on YouTube who do but, as a rule it’s not a good idea. My polled buck has a 70/30 polled ratio in his kids so it’s quite a dominate trait that gets passed along. Just for an idea.
polled goats .
I was interested in buying 3 polled kids from one herd 2 does and a buck not related though to each other. what are my chances of geting a hermaphrodite. I don't want to disbud .
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Being polled is a sex-link gene its directly related to sexual development in the womb. Your really asking to create malfunctioning goats that way. There are people who will come out and disbud for you beside a veterinarian. People do it but.. imo its not good breeding practice.
You don’t really want to breed polled to polled…there are chances you’ll get a hermi. I know there are breeders on YouTube who do but, as a rule it’s not a good idea. My polled buck has a 70/30 polled ratio in his kids so it’s quite a dominate trait that gets passed along. Just for an idea.
I head it wsa a wifestale but wanted to check . The only hermaphrodite I know of is from a horned dan and buck .
Is there any articles on this you could recommend that is up to date .I have heard of the ones from the 40s the and 60s but they are so old . Thank you for you information.Being polled is a sex-link gene its directly related to sexual development in the womb. Your really asking to create malfunctioning goats that way. There are people who will come out and disbud for you beside a veterinarian. People do it but.. imo its not good breeding practice.
What breeds are the ones you are interested in? Hermaphrodites are much more common, though still rare, in the European dairy breeds and almost nil in some other (African origin, at least) breeds. I have ND and Mini Nubians and raise polled goats, and buy polled goats from other breeders breeding polled goats with never an issue. We breed polled to polled sometimes. Still, I'd much rather have the rare hermie (not a worthless goat) than have to disbud every baby. If I was running a dairy with different breeds, I'd probably think about it differently.
We only have a few does so my pool is small. When buying polled I ask if the breeder has ever had herms and the answer has always been no. I wouldn't buy that line, if it was yes, and if I had one, I may stop breeding that animal. This spring we had 4 bucklings and 2 doelings and of the bucklings, all polled, 3 sold before we listed them. The doelings, with horns, have been much slower. Our vet said she wishes there were more polled goats. There's a lot of interest, reason and demand for polled goats with great genetics.
I've not seen any well-conducted studies that demonstrate the risk enough to make me choose differently.
We only have a few does so my pool is small. When buying polled I ask if the breeder has ever had herms and the answer has always been no. I wouldn't buy that line, if it was yes, and if I had one, I may stop breeding that animal. This spring we had 4 bucklings and 2 doelings and of the bucklings, all polled, 3 sold before we listed them. The doelings, with horns, have been much slower. Our vet said she wishes there were more polled goats. There's a lot of interest, reason and demand for polled goats with great genetics.
I've not seen any well-conducted studies that demonstrate the risk enough to make me choose differently.
I'm always interested in learning more about this too. Any references or further explanation?Being polled is a sex-link gene its directly related to sexual development in the womb. Your really asking to create malfunctioning goats that way. There are people who will come out and disbud for you beside a veterinarian. People do it but.. imo its not good breeding practice.
Trying to find one more recent but i did come across this... ""Goats
The gene for a goat to be hornless, or polled, is actually dominant to the gene for having horns. Therefore, if a goat gets a gene for being polled from one parent, but a gene for horns from the other, the goat will be polled. However, that goat can pass on either gene and if it and its mate both pass on the recessive horned gene, they can have horned kids. While hornless goats would seem ideal, they, unfortunately, come with a downside. Apparently, either directly connected to or very close on the same chromosome is a recessive gene that causes hermaphroditism. It is very interesting that this gene is (fortunately) recessive while the polled gene is dominant. However, if you breed two polled goats together, and they both pass on that polled gene with its tag-along intersex gene, that recessive gene will affect the kid₂. If the kid is male, they will appear unaffected physically. Often, the fertility of that male is affected, but there have been cases of homozygously polled male goats siring many kids. However, if the kid is genetically female, there is a high probability of that female being a hermaphrodite with masculine characteristics and sterile. Yet, the recessive intersex gene also has incomplete penetrance. That means that even when you have a group of kids that all have both recessive genes, not all of them will express the genes₄. This may account for why some of the homozygous bucks are infertile while others are not. Also, not all females born with the recessive intersex genes will be intersex. Yet, you will never find a horned goat with this type of hermaphroditism because they will always have the dominant gene overriding the intersex gene. Dr. Robert Grahn at the University of California at Davis has been studying the genetics of the polled intersex syndrome in hopes of developing a test for it. When asked what needs to happen before he can develop a test he responded, “What I would want to do is some whole-genome sequencing of some intersex goats. However, in the course of additional readings, I came across this 2/2020 article. It appears as though Simon et al may have solved the problem already. I would want to validate their findings across breeds.” It appears that we are getting closer to having a test for the polled intersex gene.""
The gene for a goat to be hornless, or polled, is actually dominant to the gene for having horns. Therefore, if a goat gets a gene for being polled from one parent, but a gene for horns from the other, the goat will be polled. However, that goat can pass on either gene and if it and its mate both pass on the recessive horned gene, they can have horned kids. While hornless goats would seem ideal, they, unfortunately, come with a downside. Apparently, either directly connected to or very close on the same chromosome is a recessive gene that causes hermaphroditism. It is very interesting that this gene is (fortunately) recessive while the polled gene is dominant. However, if you breed two polled goats together, and they both pass on that polled gene with its tag-along intersex gene, that recessive gene will affect the kid₂. If the kid is male, they will appear unaffected physically. Often, the fertility of that male is affected, but there have been cases of homozygously polled male goats siring many kids. However, if the kid is genetically female, there is a high probability of that female being a hermaphrodite with masculine characteristics and sterile. Yet, the recessive intersex gene also has incomplete penetrance. That means that even when you have a group of kids that all have both recessive genes, not all of them will express the genes₄. This may account for why some of the homozygous bucks are infertile while others are not. Also, not all females born with the recessive intersex genes will be intersex. Yet, you will never find a horned goat with this type of hermaphroditism because they will always have the dominant gene overriding the intersex gene. Dr. Robert Grahn at the University of California at Davis has been studying the genetics of the polled intersex syndrome in hopes of developing a test for it. When asked what needs to happen before he can develop a test he responded, “What I would want to do is some whole-genome sequencing of some intersex goats. However, in the course of additional readings, I came across this 2/2020 article. It appears as though Simon et al may have solved the problem already. I would want to validate their findings across breeds.” It appears that we are getting closer to having a test for the polled intersex gene.""
Reference^^^ Hermaphroditism and Polled Goats - Backyard Goats
In the end its your personal choice of.course.. i just feel that risking making goats with defect.. and yes they can Go be pets. But still its still a defect.. is not worth just trying to avoid disbudding but again its your choice. Just my feelings on it.
Also from Backyard Goats:
Origin: Oberhasli goats are indigenous to the mountains of northern and central Switzerland, where they have been developed for dairy and are simply referred to as chamois-colored goats. On the eastern side (Graubünden), they normally bear horns, while those around Brienz and Bern are naturally polled and are called Oberhasli-Brienzer. From the latter are descended the American line. Around Bern, the goats were traditionally used for home production, while in Graubünden they accompanied semi-nomadic farm workers as a mobile milk supply.
I assume that these lines of polled Obberhasli goats would not be associated with hermaphroditism.
Origin: Oberhasli goats are indigenous to the mountains of northern and central Switzerland, where they have been developed for dairy and are simply referred to as chamois-colored goats. On the eastern side (Graubünden), they normally bear horns, while those around Brienz and Bern are naturally polled and are called Oberhasli-Brienzer. From the latter are descended the American line. Around Bern, the goats were traditionally used for home production, while in Graubünden they accompanied semi-nomadic farm workers as a mobile milk supply.
I assume that these lines of polled Obberhasli goats would not be associated with hermaphroditism.
Interesting!
Why assume this?
"In the caprine context, polled trait–related intersexuality and epididymal stenosis can be eradicated by avoiding polled-to-polled matings. In contrast, the freemartin type of sex reversal occurs as a result of the destruction of female meiotic germ cells by the cells and hormones communicated by the male co-twin through the shared placenta."
It makes me think that some of us should be breeding polled goats (or even polled-polled) to perpetuate the genetically sound lines and cull/stop any breeding with animals that produce herms. One day we'll be able to test individuals for this, I hope.
Why assume this?
Here's an excerpt from a few older write-ups regarding the different types of intersex/herms/psuedoherms: Polled Trait - an overview | ScienceDirect TopicsI assume that these lines of polled Obberhasli goats would not be associated with hermaphroditism.
"In the caprine context, polled trait–related intersexuality and epididymal stenosis can be eradicated by avoiding polled-to-polled matings. In contrast, the freemartin type of sex reversal occurs as a result of the destruction of female meiotic germ cells by the cells and hormones communicated by the male co-twin through the shared placenta."
It makes me think that some of us should be breeding polled goats (or even polled-polled) to perpetuate the genetically sound lines and cull/stop any breeding with animals that produce herms. One day we'll be able to test individuals for this, I hope.
Just based on the fact that the polled Oberhasli have been around as a separate population since the late 1800s. Though I admit I have read nothing about their rate of hermaphroditism.Interesting!
Why assume this?
I am wanting to breed Mini Nubians .There is a breeder near me that has registered polled Min Nubians .I found this article on here on polled vs horned what do you all think of it .What breeds are the ones you are interested in? Hermaphrodites are much more common, though still rare, in the European dairy breeds and almost nil in some other (African origin, at least) breeds. I have ND and Mini Nubians and raise polled goats, and buy polled goats from other breeders breeding polled goats with never an issue. We breed polled to polled sometimes. Still, I'd much rather have the rare hermie (not a worthless goat) than have to disbud every baby. If I was running a dairy with different breeds, I'd probably think about it differently.
We only have a few does so my pool is small. When buying polled I ask if the breeder has ever had herms and the answer has always been no. I wouldn't buy that line, if it was yes, and if I had one, I may stop breeding that animal. This spring we had 4 bucklings and 2 doelings and of the bucklings, all polled, 3 sold before we listed them. The doelings, with horns, have been much slower. Our vet said she wishes there were more polled goats. There's a lot of interest, reason and demand for polled goats with great genetics.
I've not seen any well-conducted studies that demonstrate the risk enough to make me choose differently.
Polled Goats
I had a Hermie born many years ago to 2 horned parents. Both parents had been born on in my herd, had horns that were then disbudded. And yes, they were actual horns as they had grown a bit longer than I would have liked because my disbudder had been destroyed in a fire. She was a Lamancha x Nubian cross. Neither breeder had ever had a polled goat in their herds.
She/it was a true hermie. It had a tiny penis in her vulva. It became erect when she was in rut. You could see the testes under the udder area, but still in the abdomen when it was checked by ultrasound. At 6 months of age she developed male sex characteristics- the long mane, the thick neck and the musk. If you didn't look at the back end, you would swear she was a complete male. Watching her try to pee on her long beard was rather amusing. She was the best heat detector, as the does would show to her long before they would show to my buck.
I got my first polled goat this year, a weanling Nigerian buck. I am hoping we have the majority of the kids born polled. Not sure where I will go from there, with the polled kids, do I get another polled buck or not? Will be doing a bunch of research before I have to decide!
She/it was a true hermie. It had a tiny penis in her vulva. It became erect when she was in rut. You could see the testes under the udder area, but still in the abdomen when it was checked by ultrasound. At 6 months of age she developed male sex characteristics- the long mane, the thick neck and the musk. If you didn't look at the back end, you would swear she was a complete male. Watching her try to pee on her long beard was rather amusing. She was the best heat detector, as the does would show to her long before they would show to my buck.
I got my first polled goat this year, a weanling Nigerian buck. I am hoping we have the majority of the kids born polled. Not sure where I will go from there, with the polled kids, do I get another polled buck or not? Will be doing a bunch of research before I have to decide!
That thread pretty well sums it up... there is conflicting information, science "changes" and has biases, there are gaps, assumptions, etc. In the end, we educate ourselves as best as we can and make the decision we feel best with. I absolutely feel comfortable breeding my polled mini Nubians and ND's. Each kidding, I reap the rewards. I'd definitely rather take the risk of a very rare hermie possibility (which we know can happen with horned animals too), than deal with disbudding, scurs, etc. on every kid. (Even though my daughter's absolute favorite thing is holding baby goats to and from the vet's for disbudding). Until there's sound, recent research or testing, there's bound to be a lot of speculation.
^^^ good statement i agree everyone has thier own side if this opinion. And theres not really something just concrete yes or no its down to personal choice and experience.
We had a hermie from horned parents. They were half siblings. So yes it can happen out side of polled bred to polled. I think there is a risk..but just how much of a risk I have no idea. As littleheathens said, there is conflicting information.
I have a few polled cows. And my bull was polled. Their calves are polled...one of which is pregnant...so not sure if it's the same with goats as cows...but we figured if needed..we can process a cow who can't breed. Guess same can be said of goats.
I have a few polled cows. And my bull was polled. Their calves are polled...one of which is pregnant...so not sure if it's the same with goats as cows...but we figured if needed..we can process a cow who can't breed. Guess same can be said of goats.
The association of hermaphroditism to being polled, or at least the perception of an association, is goat specific. There have been polled lines of cows and sheep (and horses) for a long time without the fear of hermaphroditism.
I agree with Mike… all of my horses have been naturally polled 😂
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