POLLED????

Discussion in 'Goat Frenzy' started by liz, Mar 5, 2008.

  1. liz

    liz Active Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Okay, could someone PLEASE explain to me how I could end up with a POLLED doeling out of 2 horned parents???? :? :?


    Heres the deal. Tilly had triplet doelings on Feb 20th. So at 2 weeks old 2 of them have little nubs not thru the skin yet, the other which is a belted gray agouti has a head as smooth as a tennis ball! Angels doeling born a day earlier also has nubbies.


    Tilly's kids were sired by Hank, I witnessed this breeding. She was also with Chief during her heat in September but beat the crap out of him til he gave up. She also kidded on day 142 with the breeding with Hank but if Chief actually "caught" her 8 days earlier then she would have been on day 146 with the "supposed" breeding with Chief. I am super confused here and going nutso because Chief was dis budded, not polled. The ONLY way Chief could be the sire is if she had a false heat and bred with Hank AND Chief was being beat up because her "window" had closed and I didn't see him do the deed before. :? :?
     
  2. liz

    liz Active Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    HELP! Please, ANY insight for my sanity is welcome. What would cause a kid to be polled if both parents are horned? :?
     

  3. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    somewhere polled goats had to "happen" maybe you got a recessive gene somewhere that popped up? :shrug:
     
  4. Muddy Creek Farm

    Muddy Creek Farm New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Keokuk, Iowa
    I was just reading a book and it said it is not uncommon for two horned goats to have a polled kid - people just think it isn't possible so they disbud them anyways.
     
  5. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    you now Chelsey after you said that I think I read that too. Now I am curious off to read about it in my book...................oh drat it isn't in there *pout*
     
  6. sparks879

    sparks879 New Member

    i think it works like the extra teat gene. If you have a kid that shows up with an extra teat out of two two teated parents ( i have seen it heppen three or four times) both parents have to be carrying the recessive gene for it.
    So more then likely one of your does parents was polled, she got horns but is carrying the recessive polled gene. same with the sire. when they two animals were bred together these two recessive genes became diminant over the horned gene. However there is a lower chance say one in three that the kids would end up polled. Sinse both your animals were horned (that being the dominant gene) you got two of three kids that were horned.
    Ok let me know if this doesnt make any sense i can see it would be very confusing but i don;t know how else to explain it.
    beth
     
  7. goatheaven

    goatheaven New Member

    121
    Oct 18, 2007
    South Carolina
    I had a pygmy kid one time and thought she was polled but she was actually just a slow grower. Her horns did not really appear until she was 3 months old so it might be that. They did not even stick out past her head until she was 5 months old.
     
  8. goathappy

    goathappy New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Illinois
    I agree with everybody else, it is probably a recessive gene. I've also seen two polled goats produced a horned kid.
     
  9. liz

    liz Active Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Thank you so much!! I know that both Tillys parents are horned because I raised them here, and for sure her dams parents were horned also..so even though the "polled" gene could have been way back in the lines it came up now? Just wondering cause I HAVE NEVER HAD A POLLED KID BORN HERE. Thanks for the insight because this really threw me off!
     
  10. Shazzy

    Shazzy New Member

    37
    Oct 15, 2007
    Twin Cities
    I always thought that the polled gene was dominant. That's why you can get horned kids from 2 polled goats. I really don't know how that could have happened, unless it was a mutation. Of course I don't have a lot of practical experience with goats, but I do understand genetics and the dominant polled gene would show up in the parents if they had it. ???
     
  11. goatnutty

    goatnutty Active Member

    Oct 9, 2007
    South East,IN
    I could have swore that I read somewhere that it's not good to breed two polled goats? :?
     
  12. all1965

    all1965 New Member

    381
    Oct 6, 2007
    AR
    It is not recommended to breed two polled goats together as it may cause hermaphrodites. For this reason I never breed two polled goats together.
    I would wait and see. Her horns may just be really slow in coming in.
     
  13. all1965

    all1965 New Member

    381
    Oct 6, 2007
    AR
    I too am pretty sure the polled gene is dominant.
    If the goat has the polled gene they will show polledness. The same with blue eyes. If the goat has blue or marbled eyes then they have the blue eyed gene. If they don't then they don't have the gene. My theory is that people who say they have gotten blue eyed kids from brown eyed parents is that actually the parents have marbled eyes and the owners just missed them. I have had 3-4 kids born with marbled eyes and then they fade to brown. I believe the kids still have the blue eyed gene.
    All this is just my personal opinion.
     
  14. jBlaze

    jBlaze New Member

    254
    Oct 9, 2007
    Oregon
    I know that just because a goat has been "dis-budded" does not mean that it is not polled.

    People will dis-bub polled kids for a variety of reasons.

    I'm not saying this is the case with yours, how the heck would I know! ;)
     
  15. liz

    liz Active Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    OK....I understand that polled can pop up if it is in the genes. Now just to make things easier to understand here.
    Tilly has horns, her dam Bootsie has horns, Bootsies parents had horns.
    Skippy, Tilly's Sire has horns...never saw his parents so I don't know.

    Hank and his parents are horned
    Chief was disbudded but did have horn buds
    Chiefs Sire has horns
    Chiefs Dam is polled as well as his grand sire.

    So the liklihood of Chief being the sire is greater because THERE IS POLLED in his lines....None in Tilly's.
    Which is why I am thinking that the breeding with Hank on the 3rd of October was a false heat and Chief actually did breed her on the 26th of September...8 days earlier.
     
  16. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    yes polled is usually dominant - but with anything there is always a way around "the system"

    And it does look like Chief was being busy!
     
  17. liz

    liz Active Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Ok...Thanks Stacey...I was figuring it WAS Hank because I saw them and she made a beeline for him as soon as she had chance...so it WAS a false heat then..I mean ONLY 8 days from the last heat...it had to be! So, I guess that having an identical pygmy doeling to Hank out of Tillys3 could very well be because Tilly's grandsire was identical to Hank....so confusing!! This doeling is definately polled and not just slow with the buds because she has no swirls of hair and the bumps she has don't feel like horn buds at all. If I can I'll post a pic of her head compared to Goldies so you can see the difference.

    Well at least when we stress over these types of "genetic things" we know why and how they come about. I just love my kids and wouldn't want to breed and have the "bad" genetics come through. Now I know why she has a polled doeling :thumbup: It was CHIEF!!
     
  18. sparks879

    sparks879 New Member

  19. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    she could have been bred by both of them and chief being the sire for the polled and Hank the sire for the two that look like him. :shrug:
     
  20. goathappy

    goathappy New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Illinois
    I'm not so sure about the polled on polled breeding anymore, and the only reason I say so is because I bought a doe from a guy(this was a while ago) who bred nothing but polled on polled and he never had any problems with hermaphrodite kids. Maybe its just one of those things :scratch: