[liz]

Here goes... something that has always puzzled me because I have read that deer worm is mainly due to slugs and snails in wetland or shaded areas... my fields and pens are in full sun all day long until around 6pm when the sun dips behind the trees, My buck Crisp started to walk a bit odd a few days ago, I noticed that he was sorta dragging his rear toes... doing this the same time he blubbers and spits at the girls and sings his high pitched bucky squeal so I thought that this was part of his buck dance, anyhow he is alert, eating very well, drinking, still harrassing the girls at the fence as well as my Jr buck.

Just because I know that Meningeal Worm is a possibility as I do have deer who travel the fencelines and I do see slugs around, I started to agressively treat him with high doses of SafeGuard... he is getting 1cc per 7lbs and at 50 lbs I'm dosing with 9cc's.
He's had 2 doses so far and I know to continue for the next 3-4 days.

He is up and moving about and I did notice today that he seems to be throwing his right hip outward as he walks? Maybe an injury instead of MW?
Another thing that I noticed that seems to have gotten worse.... he does toe out in front but his front pasterns seem to have gotten weak? He was never like that before and I've had him here for over a year now

I do not give BoSe as I haven't had any indications in the last 13 years with my other goats that selenium deficiencies are an issue... I do have selenium/E paste on hand though.
Any insight as far as what may be going on would be greatly appreciated

 

[happybleats]

For MW its good to add Banamine with the treatment, do Ivomec plus once safeguard is treatment done...
I would give the Selenium Vit E gel monthly. Also Listeriosis or Polio come to mind, I would add Thiamine to his daily and see how that helps..or Fortified B complex...I would also start Listeriosis treatment. Lots to give I know..but when so many illness show simular symptoms we kind of have to throw the book at them...
MW, Polio and Listeriosis need quick treatment for fast recovery, so waiting to try one then the other might not be in the best interest of the buck..

 

[ksalvagno]

You do need to add the Banamine and Ivomec.

A BoSe shot or the selenium paste wouldn't hurt to do. May as well treat him for everything possible.

Unless you have a spinal tap done, you really don't know for sure. But M Worm can happen anywhere that deer can access or walk nearby. Honestly doesn't matter if it is wet or not, sunny or shady.

 

[liz]

Thanks

Even though I know that each case can present with different symptoms in individuals, I don't believe that this is either Polio or Listeria as I have had 2 goats diagnosed and treated for each of these a few years ago, Crisp has not shown symptoms of either... and each of those presented in different ways.
As of bedtime tonight, he hasn't gotten worse, still his obnoxious bucky self and chased Murphy away from the hay feeder.
I will start the supportive B Complex dosing tomorrow, can't hurt and also get the Ivermectin injectable to start after the Safeguard dosing is done.... do I inject the Ivermectin or dose orally?

 

[ksalvagno]

Ivomec needs to be injected.

 

[happybleats]

DOnt forget Banamine...

 

[ThreeHavens]

Best of luck to your guy! Keep us updated!

 

[dobe627]

Agree with ivomec. That's what vet had me give my llama when he came down with it

 

[liz]

What is the progression of this? So far Crisp is himself except for that toe drag on his right hind leg, no neurologic symptoms like I have seen with Polio and Listeria .... I'll treat him for M,W and have given B-Comp just in case but I'm even wondering if he injured himself being the very dominant buck that he is?
Never down, off feed , no temp, eyes bright and focused, no head tilt and even though I do see some bald spots on his side it is from him going through the creep door made for my littlest guy, I don't see him scratching those areas as I have read happens with the migration of MW larvae under the skin.... I am really puzzled ???

I will have a call in to my vet come Monday if he's showing no change

 

[ksalvagno]

If you catch it early enough, there shouldn't be further symptoms. It just may take a while for the foot dragging to stop.

Maybe give him some suppotives that are good for nerve healing.

 

[happybleats]

I agree..the fact he is not progressing is a good sign...from what Karen has said and what I have read..recovery can be long...and some nerve damage done may never repair but wont get worse..MW is a cruel worm....If this is what he is struggling with, you caught it spot on and so his chances of full recovery are very good. There are several Ess. Oil that could help with his leg...Peppermint sooths and strengthens damaged nerves, Basil will stimulate,Lemongrass is good for nerve damage, Geranium regenerates...you can make a rub of any of these and apply directly on his leg...I would mix a few drops in a carrier oil Best wishes Liz! He is in good hands

 

[ksalvagno]

M worm normally goes through the spinal cord up into the brain. That is why the Banamine or Dex is important. To help any inflammation of the spinal cord.

 

[liz]

I don't have Dex or Banamine.... he is still doing well though, no bad changes... I'm about to go and give him the Ivomec... what dose do I need to use and how often? Every day or just the one injection?

 

[ksalvagno]

http://goatconnection.com/articles/publish/article_126.shtml

http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/meningealworm.html

1cc per 25 lbs SQ for 5 days in a row. Tennessee Meatgoats says to use Ivomec Plus but only because that will take care of Liver Fluke if there is any present.

 

[liz]

I know I have read both of those sites info when I first suspected MW... And of course I missed where the dose of the Ivomec suggested 1cc per 25lbs, otherwise I wouldn't have asked or actually ended up just dosing him with 1cc per 40lbs

I did get an accurate weight today when I lead him out of the buck pen to my main area, hanging scale and sling, he weighs 64 lbs so I under dosed him by giving him 1.5 cc
He didn't cry out from the Ivomec shot but he did start scratching at the area once I had him back in the buck pen... kept his balance too as he stood on his left rear and scratched with his right rear, he is wobbly though.
Ate every bit of his dinner, and then went after Murphy's... he molested Boris, ate his hay, drank well and readily took the Selenium/E gel I offered him. When I led him through the doe pen to get to the gate of the main area, he was very easily pulling me to check out the girls, even stood ground when Penny head butted with him. I'll give him a 2.5 cc injection of the Ivermec tomorrow.... I hate sticking my goats so many times but I will do what is needed to try and fix any problem.

 

[ksalvagno]

I wouldn't worry about it. Just dose him that way the rest of the time. When I gave alpacas the Ivomec part, I just gave them regular dose. But since those sites recommend a higher dose, I won't say otherwise. But honestly, even with a goat that I suspected M worm, I only did the regular dose of Ivomec.

 

[liz]

Thank you for that reassurance Karen :hug:
Some of the info I've read isn't very reassuring Most says that even if caught early, and treated he may never be able to be a breeding buck because of the rear weakness

 

[ksalvagno]

Only time will tell. The alpacas that I took care of went on to be just fine. :hug:

 

[happybleats]

I agree with Karen, time will tell..He could make a full recovery..he is in very good hands with you and you caught it early. You can do strengthening excersise if need be..Yes, its good to keep in mind damage done can be permanant..but we do what you can to improve the odds In the end you know you did what you could regardless of the out come...Sounds like he is already heading in the right direction