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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've got a young nubian/saanen cross doe here who I seem to be having a bit of trouble breeding.

Obviously breeding season is over now (I should say at this point I live in the southern hemisphere) but I'm wanting to figure out what my chances are before next season.

There's a remote chance she may be pregnant, but I don't believe so and she shows no signs and should be by now.

She was running with the buck all season, but I didn't realize until almost the last minute that she wasn't letting him near her ... she's very bossy and he's young. She'd also never met another goat until I got her so she just doesn't know whats what.

When I realized that, I started watching for her heat, and holding her for breeding, which appeared successful.

But she came back on, so I bred her again. By this time it was getting near end of the season, and she came on a sort of mild half heat again, I bred her, and she didn't come back on, but that was the end of the season.

I have heard they can have a mild heat 3 weeks after getting pregnant, but that was 2 months ago now, and still no signs. The other does all showed very clear signs of pregnancy by this time.

The buck is fine, he's done his job admirably by my other girls.
She's fully horned, so definitely not a hermaphrodite issue.

I'm beginning to wonder about her age too, she should be coming up 2. Thing is, I find mixed information on teeth aging.

Old books all say 1 year, 1 set of teeth, 2 years, 2 sets, 3 years, 3 sets.

When I look on the net, I find sites saying
1st set, 1 year, 2cnd set 1-1/2 years, 3rd set 2 years.


If the websites are right she's 2 as she should be ... if the old books are right shes 3 and the last owner had the same problems and sold her as a year younger to pretend she's ok.

I'm hoping there's nothing very wrong as this is my best goat, and most expensive to boot.

Any ideas?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I'll try and get a photo of her tomorrow but I wouldn't bet on much success there ... she likes to stay face on to people and doesn't tend to hold her tail very high as a general thing.

(I have sufficient trouble trying to get a quick look myself)

She would be reasonably early though and she's always been pretty tight there anyway ...
 

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At that age, she should have bred (especially as she's been running with a buck full time). NOT what you want to hear, but I'm guessing you got took. I'd still give her until kidding is well over....I've had some young ones that showed absolutely no signs of being pg show up with a baby by their side. I've also bought a couple that never got pg....they went to the sale pretty quick after that.
 

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I would start selenium treatment and multimin. You also can dose up 2cc of cystorelin and give to her IM.
 

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there are several reasona doe cant get pregnant even in standing heat...
being too fat or too thin
Mineral Def. Check your area maps for Selenium or copper def.
Cystic ovaries
Some medications/wormers or heavy worm load..

these issues ar fixable...might want to consult a good vet before ending her career.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Ok have got some pics! Barley maize works wonders for holding a goat still and raising the happy dial!

She could be either 9 weeks or 6 weeks pregnant. As you'll see I'm pretty sure there's no sign there ... she's always been pretty tight there. The other goats were showing some signs of softening by this stage ... also they actually stopped coming back on heat.

I wouldn't count this case of "Running with the buck full time" as being likely to breed her ... she's a bossy, bullying horned goat who has a personal dislike to my 6-month old disbudded gentleman ... who feels very intimidated. I know that he was never allowed within 6 feet of her until I started holding her.

I'll be keeping an eye on her until the dates are well over ... of course by that time she'd probably be about ready to start cycling again.

Ok to go through HappyBleat's list ...

I'm pretty sure her weight is fine ... granted this is the first time I've had dairy goats, used to meat goats, but she's in really good condition and health.

Minerals ... We are definately copper deficient here, and a few months back they were having problems in the regard, however I am now supplementing with copper so that shouldn't be a problem. I do have to say she gets less than the others as she never showed the same deficiency ...

Selenium ... Ok well my country is basically low on selenium full stop ... however the normal signs to look out for are unthrifty and white muscle disease in lambs and kids and no-one in my area has ever had that.

Cystic ovaries ... as I understand it they normally cause some pretty odd cycling ... this girl cycles every 22 days regular as clockwork, stays on for precisely 48 hours every time.

Shouldn't be medications ... she's the picture of health never needed anything. I primarily keep them worm free with herbal doses, last time she had a normal chem wormer was about 6 months ago. Her worm counts since then have been consistently low ... like 1 or 2 eggs found.

I have to comment ... I've included a pic of her udder as I actually wondered whether there was an increase in this. She always has a little udder but it might be a little more fleshy ... not sure at all though.

I'd also mention that my buck has a habit of being interested in pregnant goats ... and 5 times over the last week he's shown possible mild interest in her. Wouldn't count on it as a diagnosis but I've never seen him look twice at an empty doe not in heat before. As that is literally the strongest maybe she's shown I'm picking she's not preggers ...
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I can't really afford to take her to the vet on the offchance he'll come up with something to help ... if he does it'll cost, if he doesn't he'll still charge for a consult ... I bought her for $180 ... he could easily charge that much to tell me she's sterile ... and I don't have an income to speak of ... I grow all my own food and barely sell enough calves to cover the rates, thats just how I live.

The only thing I could afford to do is sell her to pay for a replacement ... but how can I sell a goat that I can't get pregnant!
 

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Selenium ... Ok well my country is basically low on selenium full stop ... however the normal signs to look out for are unthrifty and white muscle disease in lambs and kids and no-one in my area has ever had that.
Hard to get bred is another sign : ) as well as retained placenta, sluggish delivery and pulled kids, weak legged kids and kis with bent legs...of course you got to get her bred first to see these things ;)

might try selenium Vit E gel monthly until breeding season begins again..never know..
 

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She looks bred to me actually...
 

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You can pull blood and send to biotracking, it's super cheap....
 

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She doesn't live in the USA, so biotracking is out.

To me she sort of looks like she might be pregnant. That udder looks like it is developing. I wouldn't give her up as sterile just yet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
REALLY???!!!:D:) You think she might be?

I'll keep an eye on that udder then ... maybe there's still a chance she got bred on the last heat ... I was so sure it was a write-off ...

She has always had a little mini udder, and to look at that I'm sure when/if she kids she'd be a wonderful milker. But it was always little ... like no body to it, now I'm not so sure. I did wonder whether it had increased a little yesterday, as it apears to be a bit of a soft handful, but its hard to say as there's always been something.

Do you think there's any sign of it on her lady bits? I'm not at all sure what to look for there ... all I know is the others showed softened by this stage, but they were always more that way to start with.

I'm not very experienced at this stage ... I've had goats for 10 years but always before feral/boer crosses that more or less look after themselves ... changing to dairy goats is like being new to goats all over again!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
In the meantime I'll shop around for some of the selenium gel stuff ...

A couple of weeks back we did have a cow who after long labour had a dead calf with bent legs and didn't pass the placenta too good ... we removed it as soon as it appeared loose on day 4 ... we thought the problem was only because she was bred way too young (thanks to master bull and a broken gate or two), but maybe it was a mineral problem after all.
 

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Selenium deficiency can cause all sorts of problems! In cattle as well as goats!
I agree, she does look bred! I'll cross my fingers for you!
 

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She doesn't live in the USA, so biotracking is out.

To me she sort of looks like she might be pregnant. That udder looks like it is developing. I wouldn't give her up as sterile just yet.
Has she mentioned her place of residence somewhere? Maybe I missed that...that would make a difference for sure.

As far as her vulva goes she's very relaxed, the tip is tucked, and the anus is loose. All signs that she's set and ready to go. I never go by udder until close to kidding mainly because hormone fluctuations all affect udder texture.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Oh I didn't really say where I am did I? I'm in New Zealand ... lovely climate ... mineral status can be a bit rough at times though I've got to admit. But thats what you get when you take large animals to a place that was clearly never meant to take them!

I've found myself some selenium though, and I'll start her on that, in case ... that way by next season she'll be good for that.

Ok you guys have all seen something I haven't in that photo ... much to my releif ... I never knew that sort of sign before ... all I've seen is them going soft and poofy. Which the others did by week 5. I was already pretty sure she wasn't getting pregnant so when she didn't show that same sign I was certain my horrible suspicion was confirmed!

I'll assume she's pregnant for now and wait for more signs to become apparent. In the meantime I'll focus on her minerals and at least I'll have them up by next season. If she's pregnant she'll benefit from them anyway!
 
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