Precocious Udder doe sick

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by whatknott, Nov 8, 2008.

  1. whatknott

    whatknott New Member

    256
    Feb 22, 2008
    Pennsylvania
    Anyone have suggestions? I posted a couple weeks ago about a doe that has had a precocious udder for some time. Many gave suggestions,but I followed what my vet said. He said not to milk her out, either give her two hormone shots or else breed her. I put her in with my billy for a week and a half. She did not come into heat. Took her out of the pen on Thursday. Friday I noticed she wasn't aggressive at eating at feeding time, but she was still eating. This morning, she was down and then stood up when everyone else was eating but no attempt to move. Took her temp - 99.7 (was expecting high temp, not low). Since she was cooperating, I felt the udder, very hard. I milked some of it, no milk, but clearish, Maybe brownish, water stuff squirted out - tried several times. No milk. Put her under a heat lamp, bedded her down with hay. Called vet. He said give her banamine, and 6 cc. penicillin. He didn't think the udder was infected or she would have a temp.
    also, gave her some nutri-drench. an hour later, was worse with head bent back. Propped her up some more and I had to leave to do a petting zoo for a party. When I got home, she had moved some, but still lying down but head stretched upwards and looking towards ceiling. No signs of blindness, but going out now to give her vitamin B complex.

    any other ideas.
     
  2. liz

    liz Active Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Her having her head at that angle seems to be a sign of polio....I'm not sure but I think the B complex would be a start , if possible try and get some thiamine...the complex has it but with polio she would need quite a bit....also, get some electrolytes into her, I would assume that since she's not eating she isn't drinking either. With no fever, you did well by getting her warmed up. Other than the possibility of mastitis...sometimes they don't have a rise in temp with it, the penicillian is good...make sure to get some probiotics into her as well...antibiotics will cause a disrupt in the rumen. Hope she pulls through for you :hug:
     

  3. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    Massachusetts
    Is the udder hot? I wouldn't give anymore banamine unless you can get her temp up.
     
  4. Sybil

    Sybil New Member

    140
    Dec 21, 2007
    Rainier, Oregon
    Sounds like a good idea with the penicillin and banamine. Could of been running temp but is now very sick and is subnormal. Is her udder hot or cold?
    Sue
     
  5. sparks879

    sparks879 New Member

    if her udder is hard i would still lean towards a bad case of mastits. Polio would be my next guess. What do you feed? what kind of hay? If her udder is hard and cold you could be in the beinging stages of gangrene mastits. This would also cause the low temp as aposed to a high temp.

    Beth
     
  6. whatknott

    whatknott New Member

    256
    Feb 22, 2008
    Pennsylvania
    we feed orchard/timothy grass hay; for grain, we use Purina lamb chow, mixed with Purina sheep and goat with DE mixed in the grain.
    I wouldn't say the udder is "cold" but it's hard. I hadn't thought about gangrene - I hope that's not the case; I had a potbelly pig once that happened to - not a pleasant experience.
    Will post how she is doing tomorrow.
     
  7. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    Massachusetts
    I would keep a very close eye on her. Warm packs on her udder and massaging it to break up the congestion. It sounds like mastitis to me. When Dawn had gangrene it was first very very hot and hard, then cold and hard.
     
  8. sparks879

    sparks879 New Member

    i would start looking at the protein levels of the gerain you are feeding. I couldnt find either one of these products on the purina website. And am not familiar with them. We dont cary either of the products at the store i work at though most of our grain comes from purina. Dry does really dont need a whole lot of grain if they are getting a good quality hay like you are feeding. My dry yearlings i treat mostly like whethers as far as feed goes. they get a very small amount. They arnt producing milk or making kids so a good quality hay and browse is enough for them.
    what causes polio is too much protein in the diet and not enough roughage. Polio and listeriosis have very simlar signs but are caused by different things. other signs of polio will be "drunkeness" stargazing (when they roll their head back and get a far away look in their eyes. not really focusing on anything in particular). their pupils usually dont dialate right either. listlessness, and blindness.
    i found a few good websites
    http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/artic ... iosis.html
    http://www.goatworld.com/articles/liste ... gwmf.shtml
    Sinse the signs are so similar its best that you treat for both.
    As for her udder. if you can squeeze some of that liquid you were talking about on a mastitis strip or even talk your get into running a test for you i would.
    Antibiotics are needed pretty quickly for both listeriosis and mastitis.
    Keep us posted!
    thanks
    beth
     
  9. whatknott

    whatknott New Member

    256
    Feb 22, 2008
    Pennsylvania
    Sunday morning - Doe much better; was chewing cud when I went to feed; had pooped during the night. Head is no longer bent upwards. Temp was a little low yet, although she was not standing still well for me to take it! This doe is difficult to do shots, trim hooves, etc. That's one of the reasons I couldn't check on this precocious udder very well previously. She did let me rub Vicks again (as she was eating her grain). It is not cold, and I wouldn't say it's hot - more like body temperature. But very hard. When I went to give her the penicillin, she refused to stand still for me, even though she was tied and slammed against the wall. I should have called for my husband, but just decided to give the pen by subq. Well, now that I'm back in the house, I read that pen is suppose to be given IM only! So what damage did I do? Hope she doesn't get an abcess...should I redo that shot and give more pen in the muscle? Or just wait until this evening and do it right?
    As far as her grain, we sell Purina feed here at our farm and you're right - those products were not on their website! Although the Lamb chow is under their Show products, but the package is not the same as on the website. The other feed is Puriana's Goat and Sheep coarse 18%. Again, I don't know why it's not listed on their website. But I'm not worried about her getting too much grain. I have about 30 other animals that are all fighting for grain at the same time and they literally are only getting a handful at each feeding. In fact, when she was with the billy goat, they weren't getting any grain at all, just hay.
     
  10. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    Massachusetts
    Pen G can go SQ or IM. So don't worry! You didn't hurt her. Pen G just can't be given IV at all! Thats why you should pull back on the syringe before you give it to make sure you aren't in a vein.

    I usually give pen 1cc per 10 pounds two times a day.
     
  11. Sybil

    Sybil New Member

    140
    Dec 21, 2007
    Rainier, Oregon
    Just went through a goat with gangrene..................terrible experience but she lived. Gave her long lasting penicillin daily sub Q.................never in all my years have I given any PCN intramuscular. Sure sounds like she has mastitis........keep up with the hot packs and massage to improve the circulation. Sounds like your headed in the right direction. Might think about dry treating her after she is over this. If she is not eating well keep up the B vit and probios. Good Job.
    Sue
     
  12. whatknott

    whatknott New Member

    256
    Feb 22, 2008
    Pennsylvania
    Re: Precocious Udder doe sick HELP

    well she was doing well this morning! At noon, she was still doing well - did not give banamine, only pen.
    Went out to eat and when we got back, she was down and head bent back. Got her up and head was pointing upwards again! Worse this time - moaning as in pain. Stiffening the body. Gave her banamine and 12 cc. B-12; 45 minutes later, not doing well at all - stiffening in the whole body and tremors. Got ahold of the local goat lady and she was guessing the same as I was - she may have mengial worm. I lost a llama to it (although never verified for sure) and we treated another llama last year just because he started showing neurological symptoms. So it is possible. Waiting for the vet; going to go out and give 2 1/2 cc ivermectrin;
     
  13. whatknott

    whatknott New Member

    256
    Feb 22, 2008
    Pennsylvania
    not going well. Vet suspected the thiamine problem because i saw improvement after one shot of B complex; but since I didn't repeat it, I'm still seeing problems. also, said too about mengial worm. Didn't think the udder is causing the the rigidness and staring at the ceiling. So said to continue banamine, pen, and try to get thiamine (which I had already located). So gave her 4 cc. thiamine and her nightly pen. No improvement. She's stiff and now lying on her side, moaning. I'm used to a goat grinding teeth when in pain, this is eery with her moaning. Did read online that if it's listeriosis, I need to give pen every 6 hours the first couple of days. So if she's still alive at 10:00, I'll try more pen.
     
  14. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    oh boy Martha I am so sorry you are dealing with this! crazy. I hope she pulls through for you her soon
     
  15. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    Massachusetts
    Poor thing. :pray: :hug:

    Your doing all you can for her. I hope she turns around for you soon.
     
  16. liz

    liz Active Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    I am so sorry she's gotten worse....I pray the thiamine and Pen work for her, :hug: to you for doing what you can for her.
     
  17. Di

    Di Crazy Goat Lady

    Jan 29, 2008
    central PA
    When my doe had polio, the vet gave the thiamine IV...then I gave her shots twice a day for several days. She looked near death for about 4-5 hours and then stood and gradually got better over a couple of days. Hope your girl gets better. Good luck. I'll say a little :pray: for her. :hug:
     
  18. whatknott

    whatknott New Member

    256
    Feb 22, 2008
    Pennsylvania
    Well, I learned something new! You can't let a sick goat lie on their side!! She bloated last night. I was able to get her to stand and just massaged the area of the bloat and all kinds of gas was burped up. So I didn't have to do anything else with that problem.
    She was very stiff last night and thrashing. I was at the point where I just hoped I would find her dead this morning but She was lying very stiff on her side on the other part of the stall (I had tried to prop her up with hay bales, but didn't work). Got her to stand; legs very stiff; head slightly tilted but no more convulsions. Got her back under the heat lamp. Temp was almost normal now, but noticed her vulva area is swollen and red. So not sure what that is meaning. Last night I was wondering if she could be pregnant. But I never put her in with the buck and if she got bred, it would have been between hog panels. I know it could still be possible but I'm talking about a little pgymy buck and a normal size nubian. There is no sign of baby, just that hard udder. I'm thinking it's all hormonal and then something else is going on neurological.
    Waiting for awhile and having the vet make a farm call today. It was a long weekend. Thanks for advice and encouragements.
     
  19. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    she could be pregnant, in heat or just red because she needed to pee badly from not doing so all night :shrug:

    hopefully the vet can give you some answers poor thing
     
  20. whatknott

    whatknott New Member

    256
    Feb 22, 2008
    Pennsylvania
    Of course she was up and standing when the vet came! But his guess that it's a bad case of mastitis and it's thrown off her electrolytes, her calcium and her thiamine. Temp was normal today. He tubed her with electrolytes (I've got to repeat that and boy that scares me!!); gave her some electrolytes in IV; gave her calcium. Switched her to LA200; I'm to continue thiamine, calcium, electrolytes, probiotics, LA 200, banamine and is there something else??? He thinks she'll make it but it's going to be an up and down time for her. Of course my youngst son is getting married this weekend - not good timing. I'm massaged some horse linament on the udder - it's even harder than it was yesterday. no sign of gangrene yet (at least it's not cold) but I can't imagine the udder ever recovering. So he said not to breed her; and her udder may never be cosmetically okay to use for the petting zoo, so I'm spending big bucks trying to save a goat that will probably be a great pet for someone else!!