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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So, pro's and con's with pulling the kids, and bottle feeding... I like to do natural, because of the bond baby and mom have, but I'm wanting more friendly kids to sell this year, and it seems like a lot of extra work with pulling them... I do have 2 Nubians that I will probably have to pull, since I got them from a farm that practices that, then I have 5 FF.... So, I might have to pull them if I see the kids not being cared for... so, your opinions, and why you do what you do...? Thanks in advance
 

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I have never pulled intentionally. But I can see why people do. Bottle babies are much friendlier. Some people also pull to practice cae/cl prevention.

When I have been forced to have a bottle baby I have to rely on neighbors to do midday feedings because we both work. So, it really doesn't work for our schedule which is why I avoid it. Also bottle babies are very friendly but it gets to the point that it's super annoying. They have no concept of personal space.
 

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So, pro's and con's with pulling the kids, and bottle feeding... I like to do natural, because of the bond baby and mom have, but I'm wanting more friendly kids to sell this year, and it seems like a lot of extra work with pulling them... I do have 2 Nubians that I will probably have to pull, since I got them from a farm that practices that, then I have 5 FF.... So, I might have to pull them if I see the kids not being cared for... so, your opinions, and why you do what you do...? Thanks in advance
Just because another farm pulled and bottled does not mean you need to. If you are there at delivery make sure the dam cleans the kids for the most part. Yes you can help some but if she does it that is her starting the bonding process. Just watch and see how these does do with their kids from the get go. They will probably do just fine.

If your does are friendly and you spend time with the does and kids there is no need to pull the kids. Our dam raised kids are just as obnoxiously friendly brats as the bottled kids. We spend a lot of time with ours. The does being friendly with the humans teaches the kids also that us humans are good. Plus us touchin, talking to and sitting with the kids helps.

As far as the ff goes... most ff do fine. Some may have a rough start for a few days until it clicks that these are their kids and they need care for them. But patience and makin sure the doe lets them nurse is what you would need do. If the ff are standoffish to the kids tie her or put her on a milk stand and make her let those kids nurse several times a day. Most of the time it only takes a few days if this happens for the doe to figure it out. You will need watch to make sure the dams are not crazy engorged and sore.... that will keep them from lettin the kids nurse. If they are engorged milk some out and try gettin the kids nursing again. If she is super sore from a hard delivery sometimes banamine is given to help with that. If you have singlets you may need milk the doe from the get go if the singlet is not drinking enough of her milk.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Just because another farm pulled and bottled does not mean you need to. If you are there at delivery make sure the dam cleans the kids for the most part. Yes you can help some but if she does it that is her and the kids bonding.

If your does are friendly and you spend time with the does and kids there is no need to pull the kids. Our dam raised kids are just as obnoxiously friendly brats as the bottled kids. We spend a lot of time with ours. The does being friendly with the humans teaches the kids also that us humans are good. Plus us touchin, talking to and sitting with the kids helps.

As far as the ff goes... most ff do fine. Some may have a rough start for a few days until it clicks that these are their kids and they need care for them. But patience and makin sure the doe lets them nurse is what you would need do. If the ff are standoffish to the kids tie her or put her on a milk stand and make her let those kids nurse several times a day. Most of the time it only takes a few days if this happens for the doe to figure it out. You will need watch to make sure the dams are not crazy engorged and sore.... that will keep them from lettin the kids nurse. If they are engorged milk some out and try gettin the kids nursing again. If she is super sore from a hard delivery sometimes banamine is given to help with that. If you have singlets you may need milk the doe from the get go if the singlet is not drinking enough of her milk.
Thanks for the extra info, however I'm not new to any of this.... I have had to bottle feed a few because mom wouldn't care for her kids etc... I usually separate kids at night after a week, and milk mom in the morning... I just wanted to get a perspective of those who dam raise and those who bottle raise... I'm just considering doing the bottle raising this year, but not so sure if I want too I am assuming the 2 Nubians that came from a farm that pulls, their kids will probably be bottle fed, but, I guess we will see...
 

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One of our does last year was a second freshener that came from a farm that pulled kids. When she delivered she was a little confused as to what the bleating fur balls were that kept bothering her.

We had to spend a little time helping her get used to her role as a mamma. We made sure she licked the babies right away, we helped the babies latch on to nurse, and for about 2-3 days we held her while they nursed. While I wouldn't have given her any awards for goat mother-of-the-Year, she did okay, and her two bucklings grew up nicely.

I'd suggest getting a scale to weigh babies that are Dam raised every couple of days. That way you're making sure they are eating enough. If you notice anyone lagging behind then watch how she's doing as a mamma, she might need some assistance. The scale I have is a digital fishing scale from Amazon. I put he kids in my baby sling and I hoist them up with the fish scale to get their weights.
 

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Thanks for the extra info, however I'm not new to any of this.... I have had to bottle feed a few because mom wouldn't care for her kids etc... I usually separate kids at night after a week, and milk mom in the morning... I just wanted to get a perspective of those who dam raise and those who bottle raise... I'm just considering doing the bottle raising this year, but not so sure if I want too I am assuming the 2 Nubians that came from a farm that pulls, their kids will probably be bottle fed, but, I guess we will see...
Sorry, I was typing my response when you wrote yours, I didn't realize your previous experience with goats. Apologies if I've already said things you might have known.

Personally, I'd pick Dam raising any day, it's so much easier than the hassle of getting bottles ready and cleaning them. Then again, after personally nursing and also pumping for my 4 human kids in the past 10 years I'm 100% over bottles/ washing extra milking supplies if I don't have to.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
One of our does last year was a second freshener that came from a farm that pulled kids. When she delivered she was a little confused as to what the bleating fur balls were that kept bothering her.

We had to spend a little time helping her get used to her role as a mamma. We made sure she licked the babies right away, we helped the babies latch on to nurse, and for about 2-3 days we held her while they nursed. While I wouldn't have given her any awards for goat mother-of-the-Year, she did okay, and her two bucklings grew up nicely.

I'd suggest getting a scale to weigh babies that are Dam raised every couple of days. That way you're making sure they are eating enough. If you notice anyone lagging behind then watch how she's doing as a mamma, she might need some assistance. The scale I have is a digital fishing scale from Amazon. I put he kids in my baby sling and I hoist them up with the fish scale to get their weights.
I can tell if the kids are eating......, and the caution to take if they aren't.... I'm just getting different opinions, because I might end up pulling and bottle feeding this year is all...
 

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Thanks for the extra info, however I'm not new to any of this.... I have had to bottle feed a few because mom wouldn't care for her kids etc... I usually separate kids at night after a week, and milk mom in the morning... I just wanted to get a perspective of those who dam raise and those who bottle raise... I'm just considering doing the bottle raising this year, but not so sure if I want too I am assuming the 2 Nubians that came from a farm that pulls, their kids will probably be bottle fed, but, I guess we will see...
Eh don't borrow trouble yet with the nubians hon. ;). Maybe the farm just preferred to do it that way. Or they showed and wanted beautiful even udders. Or maybe they sold/used their milk and didn't want the kids takin it all. You never know. :). And maybe the does will do just fine and you will not need bottle the kids.

For me... i would WAY prefer to not need bottle kids. Lol. It is fine if we have to but not my first choice. It just is one more thing i have to do and have to be home or have someone do it so often it is just a pita sometimes. You kinda have to plan your days and nights around givin bottles for four monthsish kwim.

But truly dam raised kids CAN be just as bratty and friendly as bottled kids in my experience. :). Just spend time with them.
 

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Thanks for the extra info, however I'm not new to any of this.... I have had to bottle feed a few because mom wouldn't care for her kids etc... I usually separate kids at night after a week, and milk mom in the morning... I just wanted to get a perspective of those who dam raise and those who bottle raise... I'm just considering doing the bottle raising this year, but not so sure if I want too I am assuming the 2 Nubians that came from a farm that pulls, their kids will probably be bottle fed, but, I guess we will see...
Oh! If you are not using the doe's milk and using cows milk... it can get expensive fast! Our two bottle kids this year were drinkin a gallon of milk a day for half the time they were on bottles. Lossa lossa milks lol! Mine are mini nubians.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Eh don't borrow trouble yet with the nubians hon. ;). Maybe the farm just preferred to do it that way. Or they showed and wanted beautiful even udders. Or maybe they sold/used their milk and didn't want the kids takin it all. You never know. :). And maybe the does will do just fine and you will not need bottle the kids.

For me... i would WAY prefer to not need bottle kids. Lol. It is fine if we have to but not my first choice. It just is one more thing i have to do and have to be home or have someone do it so often it is just a pita sometimes. You kinda have to plan your days and nights around givin bottles for four monthsish kwim.

But truly dam raised kids CAN be just as bratty and friendly as bottled kids in my experience. :). Just spend time with them.
The farm I got them from shows, so that is primary why... I'm actually going to be doing LA at her place in June/July ish...
 

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We show and we dam raise ours. I've got a doe who finished 3rd in her age group with 1st place udder at the 2018 National Show and she was dam raising her kids. You just need to make sure the udder doesn't get lopsided which is more of a concern if they have a single kid.
We don't have the time or interest in bottle raising kids.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Oh! If you are not using the doe's milk and using cows milk... it can get expensive fast! Our two bottle kids this year were drinkin a gallon of milk a day for half the time they were on bottles. Lossa lossa milks lol! Mine are mini nubians.
Oh we use the does milk, I would be feeding them raw goats milk that's for sure...
 

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We dam raise all of ours. It’s too much of a time suck to have to bottle feed if not necessary, and I have a couple young goats who were bottle raised and they are a pain to retrain (very mouthy). Our dam raised are quite friendly but not near as in your face as the bottle babies.
 

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I didn't read comments but here's my take on a bottle baby boer doeling we bought last year. Yes she is friendly, but she is needy as all hell. She has never bonded well with any of my other does and becuase of this she is bottom of the herd despite that she is probably infact the strongest of all my goats. She walks great and responds great and showed very well, but she would rather be a with people then goats. Funny part is she was only bottle raised maybe a week because she was a triplet but the breeder was able to get a mom with a single to take her in. She taught herself to jump the fence, and though she will stay close to the house and goes back into the field on her own it is rather annoying to come home and see a goat on my driveway. She follows you everywhere, she's not a goat she's a dog that eats grass. She like head scratches and neck rubs. Hates water but loves to be brushed. She will eat from you hand or try to climb you to see what's in your hand. She's not afraid to get in your way if she thinks you have something she wants, but will walk almost anywhere you lead her too. she will follow you almost anywhere unless the dog is with you, she screams when she feels lonely despite having 4 other does and a horse to keep her company. And she will jump the fence just because your outside and she wants to see what your doing.

I love her to death but my one and only bottle raised doe (semi bottle raised) is my most friendly, difficult, loveable, ornery, sweet, trouble maker of all my goats. And believe me she earned her name through and through. We call her Banshee.
 

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If I were to need to pull kids, I would try to keep a social structure between them and the other goats. Leave them in the baby pen (the pen for the babies overnight so I can milk mama) for a few weeks and eventually let them out in the big pasture with the herd. I would just watch really closely so they’re not getting picked on since they don’t have mama to protect them. Also, I would consider using some kind of feeder so they don’t associate me with food as much, I mean, they know I feed them, just that they don’t actually get the bottle directly from me. I haven’t had a bottle baby in a while though.
 

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We did something different last year. we left the kids with mother fot about 4 weeks then we pulled the mother and milked her in preparation for a milk test for two weeks. in that two weeks the kids tamed way down just like they had been bottle fed there whole life. after the test we turned the kids back in with mother and she took right to them.
 

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I go out of my way not to have bottle kids. They actually make me cringe lol but I’m on the meat goat side :p but I do pull triplets and quads, I either graft them onto another doe or I suck it up and bottle feed.
Bottle babies are a pain in the behind! I think I would rather wild kids then ones that trip me, jump on me, chew on my hair or other ways to try and harm me in the name of love. Although I have to say this is my second year using a lamb bar and loving it because it has made them not love (aka try and kill me) as much.
Even if you do give fresh milk, which will take the majority of the cost out, there is still your time milking to give to the kids. It’s not as bad as buying milk and bottle feeding and I’m not sure how many does you have and how many kids you will end up pulling but that might add up to a lot of time. I don’t like being the middle man. Even when I have a cow that is in milk and I have enough milk for a small herd I would rather graft then take them.
And I don’t think I could deal with the heart ache of taking a baby away. I have had does loose their kids and they are so sad. Don’t get me wrong for health reasons I would take those kids in a heart beat and I am NOT putting anyone down that does take kids away at birth, I’m just saying I couldn’t do it.
If ultimately you just want nice tame kids, just spend time with them. Go out and sit with them, live on them when they are little and can’t get away, give them treats when they are old enough to enjoy them. There hasn’t been a goat yet that when I set my mind to taming them down that I didn’t get them tamed. Even a 18 month old buck that lived in a pasture and was never handled. So if I can get that fruit loop to be manageable you can tame the kids ;)
 

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A lot is personal preference.
I don't want to have bottle babies, I find in general they are pushy and obnoxious as adults (my experience, not necessarily true for everyone). I like having does that are friendly and I can catch and handle, but arent in your pocket all the time and walking on top of your feet.
I handle my kids a lot and they are super friendly even as dam raised, they will willingly leave their moms to come say hi and get scratches.
 

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I do everything I can to make sure they are dam raised. The only time I pull a kid is if a doe has more than 2. You don't have to pull and bottle raise if you want friendly kids. But you have to make the effort to work with those kids from the start if you want them to be easier to handle.
We raise a small herd of Boer goats, and are there for every birth, we go in to assist - even if it's just cleaning out the mouth and nose or putting the baby in front of mom or helping them find the teat. We get our hands on them, talk to them, after Mom bonds with them we sit and pet them, might even snuggle with them in our laps, etc. there will be the odd one who will still be wild and skittish, but most of them are super friendly, in your lap kinda kids :)
 
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