Problem buyer what would you do?

Discussion in 'The Chatter Box' started by Jessica84, Jan 7, 2018.

  1. Jessica84

    Jessica84 Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2011
    Sorry if this is a book, I’m just in a bad mood and need advise on what others would say or do before I reply to this guy.
    I’ve had a couple that has bought kids from me a few years now. This last year they asked to be on my waiting list and I let them know they were first on that last. They have always been very decent people! So as soon as the first kid hit the ground I had him messaging me wanting to come look at kids and pick his out. I actually just counted all his messages and there was 6 of them all saying along the lines of we have this week off work can we come up? Are you free this weekend? And so on. Every time I replied that I’m in the middle of kidding, I still have some to kid out, wait till they get a little older so I can price them fairly.
    The last time he messaged me he said I like this buckling and we really want to stop by this weekend since we will already be up that way. Totally against my own personal rules I finally gave in. So they come up and they didn’t want a buck with papers but wanted this buck that was 100%, less then 1 week old. They also wanted a handful of doelings. I quoted them a price and they said that was more then they planned on spending can we meet in the middle. I was kinda over it so said yes. They got a great deal and I did a mental yelling at myself, left just leave it at that. But I chalked it up to my fault once I realized what they got them for per head.
    The wife asks if she can have papers on the buck and I said yes. They have always been good buyers why not.
    So they asked if I could deliver the Goats to them. They live by tractor supply so was t a big deal to hook the trailer up and do so. So then I get 3 messages letting me know what days I can deliver lol. I said I will bring them when I have to go down there. Finally we set a day and the night before my sisters husband was sick and I took her kids. That’s 5 kids! 5 kids that will NOT all fit in my truck. So I called him told him what was up and that it would have to wait till the following day. He got seriously rude at me! I lost my temper and told him since it’s his responsibility to pick them up he is more then welcome to come drive up here and pick them up himself! After that he said it was fine to wait another day.
    So fast forward to about 2 months after he gets his Goats. I take some Wethers to the sale and they are there buying does. So we are sitting there talking and I go to get my check and the wife follows me into the office. She tells me husband is not happy with the way the buck is growing that they would like to bring some does over to breed to my new buck!!! I was kinda shocked and said I don’t do outside breeding (inside thinking you just bought 3 sale yard does!) she tries to push so I told her that I actually have 30 straws or semen for sale and she can buy some to breed to her does! So she drops it.
    A week later he messages that the buck is acting interested in the does but not mounting. I told him he is still young give him time and see........buck was 4 months old at that age.
    Today I post my pictures of my does on FB talking about any day now kids! Now I get a message from him (buck is now 8 months old he has had him for 5) “hey I was wondering if yoshi (the bucks sire) had any issues with his kids not dropping their balls? We wormed today and his are smaller then a 8 week old kids. Any ideas?
    I had this whole reply ready telling him off that I told him to wait and see how the kids grew before he came up and he keeps coming up with reasons he doesn’t like the buck but realized I’m in a terrible mood and should ask what others would do. I no longer care if I deal with these people after This year and husband told me to just ignore the message. Thoughts?
    mariarose, gls7177 and catharina like this.
  2. wifeof1

    wifeof1 Well-Known Member

    Mar 17, 2016
    Boulevard, CA
    All sales are final. Buyer to investigate all prior to taking delivery.

  3. Jessica84

    Jessica84 Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2011
    Oh! And that reminds me I have a signed contract that says that! It basically says all sales are final I guarantee nothing
  4. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    Oh wow, I am so sorry :( I agree, he rushed into it, this is all on him. You guaranteed him nothing, and you even asked him to wait and choose when kids were older. If the message on your post continues to bother you then tell him that.
  5. Jessica84

    Jessica84 Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2011
    I’m sitting here stewing about it but he also didn’t say hey you sold me a bad buck it’s do you know what’s going on? Now that I’ve calmed down (writing all that helped) I’m tempted to just say no one else has a issue I have no idea. I know what he is after, well not really just that he is totally unhappy with the buck. I don’t know what he is really expecting me to do. He’s 8 months old, he’s had 5 months to realize he is not up to standards if he really isn’t. I’m not going to take him back even if there is something wrong because I don’t want to bring home any diseases which he knows because I told the wife that’s why I don’t do out side breedings. Maybe I should just ignore him and deal with whatever fall out he brings :/
  6. goatblessings

    goatblessings Fair-Haven Supporting Member

    Jan 5, 2015
    Southwest Ohio
    Not one breeder in the world can tell what a week old kid will actually look like when fully mature. Sure, you have an idea, but there are NEVER guarantees. It it were easy, we as breeders, would never second guess ourselves when it came to keepers and those we decide to sell. Sounds like he needs to go bother someone else.
    top_goat, mariarose, snrsfarm and 3 others like this.
  7. NyGoatMom

    NyGoatMom Shady Acre Homestead Supporting Member

    How annoying...I would ask him questions, like Has he used any cocci prevention?( because if he hasn't, that may be why he's slower growing) What is his diet? Do you have a picture of his scrotum? lol...I would also remind him that he got a steal of a deal per head and that THIS is exactly the reason you prefer to hold onto them longer and you should have stuck to your guns. Let him know you won't be selling that early again.Put your foot down Jessie! Your goats are worth waiting for....and your hard work is worth you being paid for.
    top_goat, mariarose, lhorning and 7 others like this.
  8. Jessica84

    Jessica84 Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2011
    Thank you guys! I think your right Stephany and I’m going to ask questions. When I went back and read the message it doesn’t make any sense. He asked if anyone has had issues with the testicles dropping but then said they are small. I’m not sure which one he means or if he thinks not dropping is because they are small? Either way he did have testicles! I checked his teats and scrotum for any splits and there is no way he didn’t have any and I didn’t notice. On top of that when they came she said she learned about test structure and wants to check all their teats even though I had a list of all their test structure so I was catching them and she was feeling and looking at them so there is twice someone got down and dirty with him.
    Being small I was honestly trying to see how I was in the fault on that but then I got to thinking. I had 3 orphan bull calfs this year and they were orphans way to young so looked like crap. When I handed them they had tiny testicles. Well thinking of him he was in with a group of adult does and a buck trying to breed at 4 months old when he told me he wasn’t Mounting. He very well could be under fed so I’m going to ask for a picture and see what he is talking about with them not dropping. Testicles don’t just disappear!
  9. Jessica84

    Jessica84 Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2011
  10. Kath G.

    Kath G. Well-Known Member

    Jul 13, 2017
    I think you're being very gracious, balanced, and just about right. I wish everyone was similar to deal with, and I wish I had the wisdom to deal with everyone in this same way!
  11. ksalvagno

    ksalvagno Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    You also have to question his husbandry. You really can't answer his questions when you haven't cared for the animal.
    mariarose, Allisonmn and catharina like this.
  12. wifeof1

    wifeof1 Well-Known Member

    Mar 17, 2016
    Boulevard, CA
    No good deed goes unpunished. Stick to your procedure. Not until the kids are ready by your standards.
  13. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    I always put my foot down, No exceptions.
    Buyers who ask me to put a price on newborns, I tell them.
    I will evaluate at 1 month old, then price them, that is when I check out teat structure, scrotum ect. No sooner, as it is so hard to see imperfections that young, if they are there.

    It isn't fair to the buyer and breeder, to price newly born kids, some will change a lot to either better or worse. But some stay the same.
    We may price, too high or too low, not being fair to either party.
    By 1 month, you kinda get a better idea where they are going.

    I don't let buyers over rule or bully me to get their way for a kid that young and pricing or even putting down a deposit.

    I put buyers on a waiting list. At 1 month old I notify them, kids are priced.
    Then, if they are interested in one, they can place a deposit on them then.
    I may be harsh but, I tell them straight up, no.

    Your buyer was too quick on the draw for a kid, was inconsiderate, disrespectful to you by putting you in that situation in the first place. They had first choice yet didn't have the patience to wait until you could evaluate them a little older to be fair. That is on the buyer.

    I do have to say, some really good kids that leave here, do not always turn out very well because of bad care of the buyer. I have seen some I was just floored on how poorly they looked, it is devastating and disgusting.

    Some buyers neglect to worm, do cocci prevention, so growth isn't stunted, to not feeding properly, giving no loose salt and minerals. Or not enough of something in it, or they do not eat them.
    And do not supplement it when needed.
    That is what I believe happen here.

    Having small scrotum tells me the buck is not getting enough copper in his diet. The scrotum gets super small in size and they lose libido. ;)

    The buyers had the buck long enough you shouldn't have to take him back, refund anything or supply a buck for breeding.

    However, if the buck is infertile, and a vet clarifies with me, a sperm sample, there is infertility. I will refund or give another buck choice.

    I would maybe mention copper deficiency may be an issue, along with minerals and what I mentioned here, ask what are they feeding, how much ect.

    It is on the buyers with what is happening to him and not growing well, not you.
    Ask how they are feeding, any minerals, worming, cocci, any fishtail ect. You will get the idea on if they are at fault.

    I wouldn't deal with them again after this.
  14. Jessica84

    Jessica84 Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2011
    It was partly my fault because I should have kept my ground. I shouldn’t have given in to get him off my back or have to explain that just because others price young doesn’t mean that’s the rule. This is for sure a learning the hard way thing and it won’t happen again.
    He replied
    There is no way I missed him not having testicles! I check every single buck for any splits because my one buck does have a split and I didn’t realize it when I bought him and won’t do that to another. It is a cull factor for me.
    It was $3,000 for 12 animals. That comes out to $250 a head. The vet bill alone would be more then he even paid for the buck. If the buck some how did loose his testicles and I refund the money who eats the vet bill? Even though I have sold as is on the contract I don’t want him going around saying I’m selling Wethers as bucks or whatever else he comes up with. Depending on the shape he is in he’s probably worth about $150 as meat so loosing $100 isn’t the end of the world but I’m also not going to refund if there is nothing wrong with him other then he just jumped on a kid and decided he’s not happy with him.
    mariarose, catharina and NyGoatMom like this.
  15. goatblessings

    goatblessings Fair-Haven Supporting Member

    Jan 5, 2015
    Southwest Ohio
    You are put in a hard spot. Last year I sold 3 wethers (weaned) when they went to the buyer for fair market wethers. I weighed them before they left. The lightest was 63#. At fair, 2 1/2 months later, the heaviest was 67# per the show bill (I go to see my kids show). I did not let them place a reservation this year. They didn't worm or give minerals appropriately. They were thin and wormy. I would ask these buyers what their management practices are including minerals, copper and fecal analysis. My buyers told me they wormed once with safeguard - and they had other goats die......Perhaps if you can quarantine him and get him on a good regimen you will at least get your money back AND let the buyer know about good management practices - sounds like this is his problem. If you get him back into shape I would send a before and after picture. But if you decide not to go this route I would be tempted to eat the $100, saying this is why you don't like to place kids so young. Buyers who don't manage well can come back to bite a great breeder in the heinie. I would want to see the pics they send......
    mariarose likes this.
  16. ksalvagno

    ksalvagno Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    I would tell him that he got a great wether price at $250. I'd be reminding him how cheap he got all the goats from you.
    mariarose, catharina and Jessica84 like this.
  17. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Buyers get all bills after the sale.
    Being proven by a vet is on them in order to get results and to verify there is an issue.

    I do not take back any goat, they can do whatever they want with it, but I get the registration papers back. don't want any diseases if they picked up something.

    If and only if, a buck is not fertile and wasn't castrated, plus a vet says, it is not a fertile buck.
    I would offer a replacement buckling, around the same price or they can pay more if they want a more expensive buckling, so no money out of pocket only if it is verified by a vet, he has an issue, caused by a defect, not because they did not give minerals or is dietary or being banded/castrated.

    No scrotum seems odd, if you did indeed see he had them before he left.
    It almost seems as if he was banded by someone.
    I have seen a scrotum get smaller from copper deficiency, but, never seen them disappear. It must be looked at by a vet to determine what is going on with him and if someone cut him or not. The buyers may be trying to pull a fast one on you. Be aware.

    If you sold him as is, then you are off the hook.

    But if they bought him as a breeder young, they won't know of an issue until he is of breeding age.

    Having a vets opinion on paper may help for proving your innocence. I know reputation is key, you want a good one. You are in a bad spot, it is a tough call. :(

    The whole thing is weird?
    mariarose and catharina like this.
  18. Jessica84

    Jessica84 Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2011
    Lol I like you! Lol he does get $300 for his Wethers soooooo lol
    Ok I didn’t want to mention a vet and then have to pay for it too. There’s a vet by him if he can get in to see him Nd I know for fact it’s $100 just to walk threw the door with a appointment.
    I think the credit is very fair and that would be something I’m willing to do. Do you give the full credit of the purchase price?
    I do think I am being jerked around. That is 3 different issues that they have been unhappy about. We haven’t even talked about a refund or anything so maybe he is just asking for advise I’m really not sure.
    This was his reply and the pictures. He doesn’t look great but really not as bad as I was expecting! [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
  19. loggyacreslivestock

    loggyacreslivestock Well-Known Member

    Wow, he is 8 months old? He obviously should have a very visible scrotum hanging there. I think he needs checked like Pam said and go from there.
    toth boer goats and catharina like this.
  20. NyGoatMom

    NyGoatMom Shady Acre Homestead Supporting Member

    Oy! That is weird....I'd wanna go check him myself and see if he was banded.
    toth boer goats likes this.