Problem with doe *Sad Update*

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by AlaskaBoers, Jul 23, 2010.

  1. AlaskaBoers

    AlaskaBoers New Member

    May 6, 2008
    Wasilla Alaska
    okay
    one of my FB's got out yesterday morning, i dont know how long she was out, or how she even got out... but I know they did get into the grain. i moved her into a separate pen and gave nutridrench and electrolyte water.

    she's depressed looking, not bloated, doesn't want to stand, but did when i was giving probios, eyelids are good, she was wormed two months ago with ivomec.
    Temp will be updated.


    :(
     
  2. AlaskaBoers

    AlaskaBoers New Member

    May 6, 2008
    Wasilla Alaska
    Re: Problem with doe!

    okay her temp is REALLY low. 97.8 !!

    What should I be giving her?? I have penG and b1, nutridrench, cmpk...
    it's hot outside too, 75, but not in their shelter, it's about 50 in there.
    I took another healthy goats temp too, a 3 month old doe kid who is at 101.9
     

  3. cmjust0

    cmjust0 New Member

    237
    Oct 8, 2009
    Re: Problem with doe!

    Grain overload with no bloat, but with subnormal temperature and overall depression would point me toward rumenal acidosis...but that's just a guess. If that's what it is, a baking soda drench might help.
     
  4. AlaskaBoers

    AlaskaBoers New Member

    May 6, 2008
    Wasilla Alaska
    Re: Problem with doe!

    i was also thinking acidosis.

    they usually recover on their own correct? but I'll keep giving sodium bicarb and electrolytes.
     
  5. Polarhug

    Polarhug New Member

    263
    Jul 1, 2010
    Southcentral Alaska
    Re: Problem with doe!

    uh oh! Keep us updated...
     
  6. cmjust0

    cmjust0 New Member

    237
    Oct 8, 2009
    Re: Problem with doe!

    Not sure about the electrolytes.. I only do electrolytes when they've got a really watery scour and aren't drinking enough on their own. But sodium bicarb should be helpful, provided that acidosis is what you're dealing with..

    As with anything else, recovery depends on severity. Whether or not bicarb is enough also depends on severity, and how far off she is right now.

    If she doesn't perk up at least a little bit rather quickly, I'd be thinking about getting a vet involved.

    Also...if she's not current on her C/D-T vaccination, it might be a good time to start tracking down C&D antitoxin if you don't already have it. Situations like this are opportunities for enterotoxemia to pop up in unvaccinated goats.
     
  7. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Re: Problem with doe!

    I am sorry this happened... :( if it hasn't been long after this grain has been ingested ...This site may help....Otherwise a vet should get involved..... :hug: :(

    This is from a site about over eating grain...below..
    Scroll down to "If it overate grain":


    Thanks once again goes to Sue Reith.

    BLOAT:

    How to deal with this emergency situation By Sue Reith

    Bloat is a condition wherein the goat's rumen expands beyond its normal capacity due to ingestion of some substance that causes development and entrapment of a large amount of foam and gas. The most obvious sign of Bloat is that the barrel of the goat becomes very large, particularly on the goat's left side. In many cases the swelling will rise above the level of the backbone on that left side.

    Two common types of bloat are (1) "frothy" or "foamy" bloat, generally caused by the ingestion of large amounts of fresh, new, lush pasture, and (2) grain-overload bloat, the result of the victim having accidentally ingested considerably more than the normal ration of grain of some type. Below you will find the emergency treatments that must be carried out for each.

    The great danger here is that with both types of bloat, the distended rumen can actually compress the lungs and make breathing difficult, and sometimes impossible. And particularly in the second type, Grain Bloat, the acidosis that sets up in the fermenting grain in the rumen is very damaging to the goat's internal organs, eventually shutting them down and causing the animal's death. If not treated correctly immediately, as in within a couple of hours after the accident, the acidosis and resultant damage is unlikely to be reversible. Additionally, particularly in Grain Bloat, the body can go into a "histamine" reaction wherein all the blood vessels in the system open up wide, and due to the swelling that causes in the lower extremities the goat's feet will 'founder', which is irreversible and causes a permanent lameness.

    An additional problem that can arise when the gut is stopped in a goat, which is what takes place and is referred to as bloat, is that the clostridial organisms that are a part of the normal ruminal contents, but are routinely expelled with the feces, will sit there and multiply rapidly at that time, in short order causing Enterotoxemia, a secondary and opportunistic disease which, once begun, will without proper treatment kill your animal whether it is successfully treated for bloat or not.

    This is an emergency situation!

    Plan ahead! Don't let it happen to start with!

    1) Don't let goats out on fresh, green, lush pasture first thing in the morning, particularly in the Springtime, on an empty tummy! Grass bloat is common at that time of the year, due to an overabundance of certain minerals and other nutrients in the new plants that are growing.

    2) Secure your grain barrels against invasion by goats, who are very smart and extremely curious, and who will take advantage of any opportunity to attack a grain container!

    3) If it does happen, take the following steps:

    Determine whether the bloat was caused by over-eating lush pasture, or by an invasion of the grain barrel.

    If it overate pasture:

    A) Immediately dose it with a large amount of oil of just about any kind. canola, safflower, olive, mineral, et al. This reduces the foam and gas that will start as soon as the damage is done. A 60cc syringe, with an udder canula at the tip (if you have one) so as to get it back into the animal's throat in small, swallow-sized amounts (allowing each mouthful to be swallowed before giving another), would be good. Tip the head upward so she can't dribble it all out the minute you dose her! And give her a minute to swallow that mouthful before you dose her again.

    B) Give it a preventative shot of Clostridium Perfringens Types C&D ANTITOXIN (NOT toxoid!) to stop the enterotoxemia organisms (clostridia) that live in the gut and wait for something like this to happen to start creating toxins that will kill the goat if unchecked.

    C) Give it some antihistamine tablets (chlorpheniramine, 4mg, several tablets) to ward off a potential histamine reaction (swelling of the blood vessels) that will lead to founder, a permanent crippling of the animal's front feet.

    If it overate grain:

    A) IMMEDIATELY get out the baking soda! Put several tablespoons in a glass, mix it with warm water (you have to keep shaking it or it will settle quickly) and add a bit of molasses to make it taste better. Dose it, in a large dosing syringe if you have one (with the long, open end on it) or a turkey baster, holding the goat's head up so it will swallow, and administering just small, swallow-sized mouthfuls, allowing it to swallow after each dose. You don't want to give it inhalation pneumonia! The baking soda is critical here, because fermenting grain in the rumen creates acidosis, which will do irreparable damage to the goat and end in killing her if you allow it to happen. Repeat this process every 2 hours or so, for several times if she ate a whole lot of grain, and for just a couple of times if she ate a moderate amount.

    B) In the time between the baking soda dosings, give her lots of Pepto Bismol, also in a dosing syringe, to coat the intestinal walls that will otherwise quickly be damaged by acidosis.

    C) Give it a good dosing of oil, as with Part A under Grass Bloat above.

    D) Give it a preventative shot of Clostridium Perfringens Types C&D ANTITOXIN (NOT toxoid!) as in Part B under Grass Bloat above.

    E) Give it some antihistamine tablets (chlorpheniramine, 4mg, several tablets) as in Part C under Grass Bloat above.

    F) Whatever you do, do NOT offer ANY grain for the next few days, and introduce the goat back onto it slowly once you start again. My preference, for the next couple of meals, would be to provide fresh browse from the yard, choosing the new growth of those plants that I know are safe for goats, and that they love.

    (While I urge you to share this information with other individual goat owners, please do not reproduce the article for publication without my specific permission. Thank you. Sue Reith.)
     
  8. SDK

    SDK New Member

    Jun 26, 2008
    Yucaipa ca
    Re: Problem with doe!

    def acidiosis.. bakingsoda and vet
     
  9. AlaskaBoers

    AlaskaBoers New Member

    May 6, 2008
    Wasilla Alaska
    Re: Problem with doe!

    I gave her 30cc of Baking soda/ water. she fought heavily and stood up. she let out a long moan. :(
    still same temp. drooling a bit. oh god I feel so bad for her.

    How much more baking soda can I give?
     
  10. cmjust0

    cmjust0 New Member

    237
    Oct 8, 2009
    Re: Problem with doe!

    For her to be down like that...and a little 'drunk' acting w/ the drool and so forth, it sounds like it may already have gone systemic.

    In my opinion, it's definitely time to call the Vet.
     
  11. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Re: Problem with doe!

    Katrina ....take her to the vet....It is getting critical now.... not sure on the dosage of baking soda but... it states several tablespoons...wish they would of gave a correct amount.... but it sounds like alot....so all I can say is...the more you can give to her the better.... 30cc sounds reasonable.... did you put in the water alot of table spoons of baking soda? :hug: :( :pray:
     
  12. AlaskaBoers

    AlaskaBoers New Member

    May 6, 2008
    Wasilla Alaska
    Re: Problem with doe!

    Ok
    I gave her a total of 80cc of baking soda, (lots of soda vs. water)
    2 cc of penG (advice from a breeder / neighbor)

    what will the vet do? My friends a vet tech and says this is basically it.. ??
     
  13. AlaskaBoers

    AlaskaBoers New Member

    May 6, 2008
    Wasilla Alaska
    Re: Problem with doe!

    about the same 2 hours later.

    though her response to me now is to shy her head away, when i grabbed onto her collar she immediately stood up and pulled.
     
  14. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Re: Problem with doe!

    At least she's reacting to you...are you giving the baking soda at intervals? Has she wanted to drink anything or nibble hay?
     
  15. SDK

    SDK New Member

    Jun 26, 2008
    Yucaipa ca
    Re: Problem with doe!

    keep fliuds in her... I'd almost say throw an IV on her every once in awhile if you can to keep her hydrated.
     
  16. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Re: Problem with doe!

    If she is reacting like that....at least she is not going more down hill... almost sounds like she is trying to fight.... and may be improving...... :hug:

    Can't say what a vet would do.... but it was the last resort... hang in there ...keep doing what you are doing.... keep us updated... Prayers for your doe... :hug: :pray:
     
  17. AlaskaBoers

    AlaskaBoers New Member

    May 6, 2008
    Wasilla Alaska
    Re: Problem with doe!

    I just gave her another 20cc of water/sodium bi carb. She hasn't nibbled on hay, but saw her drinking about 1-2 gallons of gatorade water.

    She hates it so much when i stick that drench gun in her mouth, she screams and tries to get me with her horns. hopefully that's a good sign.
     
  18. AlaskaBoers

    AlaskaBoers New Member

    May 6, 2008
    Wasilla Alaska
    Re: Problem with doe!

    will milk of magnesia help at all? I also have 50% dextrose and Fortified B1
     
  19. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    Re: Problem with doe!

    I am so sorry your girl is going through this. I hope she gets better soon. Lots of thoughts and prayers going your way!
     
  20. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Re: Problem with doe!

    Ruminal acidosis
    * Like other ruminants goats need time to adapt to energy-rich feed.
    * If they suddenly gorge on grain or concentrates they are in big trouble!
    * The microbes in their rumen will not be able to cope and the result is a build up of acid in the rumen, severe indigestion and possibly even death.
    * Mild cases can respond to dosing with milk of magnesia (15ml) repeated every few hours.
    * Goats need to be introduced to grain slowly over a period of a few weeks.

    This is where I found it...
    http://www.lifestyleblock.co.nz/goats/a ... eases.html


    Also I found on a different site...that vets give doses of Magna-Lax to clear a goats system of the corn. Magna-Lax is the veterinarian equivalent of Milk of Magnesia. Always keep it on hand for Ruminal Acidosis or bloat/overeating.


    get her to walk around if possible... it helps the the digestive tract....