Protein pails

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by NDinKY, Dec 23, 2019.

  1. NDinKY

    NDinKY Well-Known Member

    645
    Aug 3, 2019
    Kentucky
    When is it appropriate to put out the protein pails? We feed primarily orchard grass/clover/alfalfa mix hay, and have just started feeding alfalfa pellets to the does at night (3 confirmed pregnant, 4 hopefully pregnant but too early to tell, and 4 doelings). We have loose beef minerals, loose sheep minerals with zinpro, a cobalt block, selenium block, and Himalayan salt block in the doe pen and buck pen. Copper boluses given as needed. We’ve not used the protein pails before but I’ve seen them mentioned. Everyone is a good weight and healthy.

    Is this something I should be putting out for the does or bucks? We don’t grain until the does are further along in pregnancy, and then we use pellets and not sweet feed. We started with the sheep minerals after reading up on zinc deficiencies and they have been plowing through them, especially when the temperature drops.
     
  2. SalteyLove

    SalteyLove Well-Known Member

    Jun 18, 2011
    New England
    I generally put the protein tubs out 3 months before kidding but I don't have a particular reason for that. The goats are all on grass hay up until then. I don't start pelleted grain and alfalfa pellets until just a couple weeks before kidding.

    Be sure whichever protein tub you choose does not contain Urea. Some manufactured for just cattle do.
     
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  3. NDinKY

    NDinKY Well-Known Member

    645
    Aug 3, 2019
    Kentucky
    Thanks, I’ll probably look into getting one soon. My first doe is due March 22nd. They’re getting about 2/3 scoop of alfalfa pellets among 11 of them, so not much at this point.
     
  4. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    We usually put out a tub about 3 months pregnant. We are currently using one that was recommended by our feed store, Purina Accuration Hi Fat it's got copper in it and labeled for cattle and goats. It's a 200lb. tub though (we raise Boer goats).

    Another one you can consider is the Goatlyx tubs, those are really good. I know there was another one mentioned to me by another breeder but I forget what it was.

    I'm curious where you got your selenium block or what brand? I haven't been as hands on with the goats as I normally am (arm/wrist issues), and despite giving Bo-Se and Selenium E gel randomly I'm thinking it's just not enough. I can't get our does to eat loose minerals, so I'd been debating finding another form of offering them selenium.
     
  5. NDinKY

    NDinKY Well-Known Member

    645
    Aug 3, 2019
    Kentucky
    I’ll have to look for those brands, thanks!

    I got the selenium blocks at tractor supply. They are the Champions Choice brand. The does haven’t really touched them from what I can tell, but I also BoSe’ed everyone prior to breeding season before putting the blocks out. The one in with the bucks has been licked on but I think that was mostly my horse, not the goats.
     
  6. friesian49

    friesian49 Active Member

    228
    Jul 2, 2018
    PA
    I just started seeing protein pails being mentioned, I hadn't heard of them before this month or at least don't remember seeing them. It looks like they are another way to feed minerals - is there a set reason to put them out? I read for one on Tractor Supply that it gave diarrhea, when there were only a couple of goats - I only have 2 girls. They already have 2 kinds of free choice minerals.

    Perhaps this is more for a large herd or pregnant does?
     
    MuldrowBeeandGoatFarm likes this.
  7. Jessica84

    Jessica84 Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2011
    California
    No protein pails/ tubs are not for minerals they are for added protein. Think of it as the same as a bag of feed, if you look at the tag on the feed sack there is going to end a few minerals listed in there and how much there is, but that bag of feed is not given for mineral reason. I think the confusion is because there are mineral blocks and probably mineral tubs but a good way to see it something like that is for mineral reasons is see if it has protein and or fat listed. If it does it’s a feed supplement.
    Now If you should give it is entirely up to you, and it doesn’t matter if you only have a few or 100, although if only a few I wouldn’t go For the big 200 pound tubs lol
    Both ladies above only give it to pregos, I have them out all the time. The main reason for ME is because the quality of their feed can change a lot threw out the year. At some points they are getting very good alfalfa hay and other times they are basically brush goats lol the tubs for me is a way that they can pick and choose when they need that added protein in their diet. The cool thing about it is if they are on good feed they won’t really touch the tubs that much. When they do need it then they attack it.
    Also as you mentioned it is a diet change and can cause loose stools. As long as I don’t run out and take awhile to get a new tub I don’t have to worry about it causing loose stools.
    But I do have to admit the reason I first started using them is because I have a larger herd and I detest giving them grain. The ones that really need the extras are usually the ones that get pushed aside and the big girls are usually the ones that get the most and they just get fatter. But my sister only has 5 does and she also keeps a pail out for them.
     
  8. friesian49

    friesian49 Active Member

    228
    Jul 2, 2018
    PA
    Thanks, @Jessica84! I guess I was ignorant on their protein needs. I do give them a cup of grain in the morning, I'll check the bag and see what it has listed. It seems like this may be another tool in the toolbox, but not necessarily a requirement and I'm not a bad goat lady for not giving it to them!
     
  9. friesian49

    friesian49 Active Member

    228
    Jul 2, 2018
    PA
    And I'm a dork. The Purina Grower pellets have 16% protein in them.
     
  10. Jessica84

    Jessica84 Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2011
    California
    No your not a dork! It’s all confusing. I THINK the reason why Saltey and Hoosier give it to late term pregos only is just for a bit more of a pregnancy toxemia prevention. And for that I am sold it defiantly helps. I had my first case of PT this year since starting to use the tubs but the tub I had out for them was a little older and dryer and the goats were not overly thrilled about it. I tried the tough love approach about It and it back fired so won’t be making that mistake again
     
  11. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
  12. TCOLVIN

    TCOLVIN TKC Farms

    Sep 21, 2014
    Cobbtown, Ga.
    I use the tubs once or twice and saw no change in any thing. If your feed is right I don’t think you need protein tubs. Imo
     
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  13. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    Yes, we like to use the tubs in late pregnancy to try and help give the does some extra nutrition/calories to try and avoid toxemia issues. We tend to always have at least 1 with triplets or large twins and that can be hard on them and cause toxemia. We have the 200lb tub out for 11 does - 6 bred to kid in just under a month. The tub does have added vitamins/minerals but is definitely not a loose mineral replacement.
    Our does get 1lb. of feed in the evenings, and alfalfa hay morning and evening with grass hay in the mix - the alfalfa is nothing fancy, it's stemmy, not sure what cutting (round bale), but they eat it really well.
     
  14. TCOLVIN

    TCOLVIN TKC Farms

    Sep 21, 2014
    Cobbtown, Ga.
    Toth Boer goats, what do you think of my giving my nannies only a hand full of cotton seed when I feed. When I say a hand full I mean a double hand full mixed in the oats and alfalfa pellets and boss. This would be for 11 goats at about 3 times a week. The seed are high in protein.
     
  15. They would be fine, but I had a doe start to get acidosis on a cottonseed meal feed that I was giving to my milkers. I finally got her under control and she's back up to milking properly. She wasn't eating high amounts either. The feed I had was 18% protein and made with high amounts of cottonseed meal and hulls. Depending on your concern for the stuff in the feed, you might also look at what goes into the cottonseed. It contains gossypol which is toxic to them in high amounts. We moved back to barley/oats/boss for our milk stand grain and love it. As long as the forage product (hay, alfalfa etc) is the majority of the diet and higher protein, the grain doesn't have to be as high. It's just for added carbs, energy, and fat.
     
  16. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    I'd be careful and heed the warning. :up:
     
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  17. NDinKY

    NDinKY Well-Known Member

    645
    Aug 3, 2019
    Kentucky
    I put out a goat specific pail from rural king about two weeks ago and they’ve almost gone through it (small bucket). I’ve noticed my doe who is furthest along is at the bucket the most.

    I’d like to get a larger tub, but the ones I’ve found are all too tall for my Nigerians. TSC has a shorter one but it has urea as the third ingredient. Has anyone found a short larger one (the goat one I got was a 2 gallon pail)?

    Also, we used to put out the crumbly goat blocks, thinking they were for minerals before we knew about leaving out loose minerals. I was looking at them last night and notice they’re 18% protein but cottonseed hull is one of the primary ingredients. We haven’t had the blocks since last kidding season. Is that something we should look at putting back out in addition to the pail?

    Right now, they’re on pretty much free choice hay (grass/clover/alfalfa mix) and about 3# alfalfa and orchard grass pellets once a day for 11 does (kidding from mid March through now end of May). We will start offering some pelleted grain in the latter stages of pregnancy.
     
  18. Jessica84

    Jessica84 Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2011
    California
    What you can do with the ones that will be too tall for your goats is put it out there and lay it on its side. Put it in a corner so it can’t roll around when they eat enough of it that it’s lighter and can roll easy. You can also lift it up and put a few bricks or whatever under it so that the goats don’t have to get down in their knees IF you would worry about that. I personally do not. They are not there on their knees all day long so it’s not going to bother them.
    Depending on your tractor supply though I suggest going out and looking at them first. I am kinda disappointed in my tractor supply over the tubs at the moment. I bought one tub and it was so dry and the goats didn’t really like it, I ended up with a doe with pregnancy toxemia for the first time in years. I went back a few weeks ago to get another one and looked first and they had water with mold floating on top. But it’s right there in back to view before you buy so doesn’t hurt to look.
    I ended up going to the feed store and talking to them. They had a crystal lyx for sheep, nothing for goats, which just means it doesn’t have that little tiny few PPM copper in it, so I got it. The goats have NEVER gone as nuts for the TS tubs like they did on this one when I put it out. But it is much harder so has kept them from eating enough to upset their stomach at all. I’m still in the “testing” stage with it lol but I think it’s going to work great. I also did the math and there is a $15 fee for the tub it’s self that I can get back by taking the metal tub back. So in the end it comes out cheaper. I won’t lie, I can’t pick up a nice metal water trough for $15 so I’m totally keeping this sucker!
     
  19. cristina-sorina

    cristina-sorina Well-Known Member

    579
    May 4, 2018
    Northeast Ohio
    I got this one from TSC, under $50, 125lb tub and it's shorter so smaller goats could get to it. Also free of urea. I believe I bought it based on a recommendation I read off of another protein pail thread, possibly MariaRose recommended it, but I don't remember for sure.

    Our goats love it and they don't fly through it like the smaller pails. IMG_1313.PNG
     
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  20. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    Crystalyx brand Goatlyx tub! I'm not sure how tall they are as I heard they changed the tub bit definitely worth checking into.
    Do you have Southern states? Ask about this tub.
    If your near Georgetown, my friend told me their SS had some in stock.
     
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