Purina email

Discussion in 'Goat Frenzy' started by kelebek, Jan 27, 2011.

  1. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    I was just going through my emails (I am really behind on some things) and yesterday I received an email from Purina from their rewards program that I signed up for.

    Anyway - it is an article about a lady and her 3 wethers - really cute article, but what really gets me is it is about pygmy goats .... maybe it is just me, but these 3 "pygmy" goats look more like a pygmy, a nigerian, and a myotonic....

    Am I just seeing things?
     
  2. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    Then just realized (some how I missed it) that they have a "kidding list"

    This kind of kidding is no joke; it's important to fully prep yourself before your goats give birth. The following tips will help insure that you have all the supplies you need to make your kidding experience goes as smooth as possible. And if you've got a kidding story of your own, we'd love to hear about it! Did everything go as planned? What was your strategy? Special tip? Funny situation? Let us know!

    You should always consult with your veterinarian first, but this is a basic checklist to prepare you for kidding:

    1) Keep a paper and pencil on hand to write down the dates of the birth and any problems you had. These notes can help a veterinarian if future health problems come up.

    2) Clean coveralls and a clean jacket—you'll want to keep things as sterile as possible.

    3) A large, heavy-duty, clean cardboard box to put the newborn kids in and a fresh bale of shavings to serve as bedding.

    4) A heat lamp for cardboard box and electrical cord.

    5) Keep it sanitary with antibacterial soap, a clean hand brush, several rolls of paper towels, lots of clean old towels, and a hair dryer for cleaning and drying kids in cold weather.

    6) Clean string to tie off umbilical cord and scissors to cut the string and umbilical cord after cord is tied. The scissors should be clean and dipped in alcohol, iodine or Nolvasan prior to use.

    7) Strong iodine in a pump bottle to spray the kid's navel after the cord is tied and cut.

    8) Sterile surgical gloves and KY Sterile Lubricating Jelly in case you have to reach inside the doe to examine her or assist with the birthing process.

    9) A stack of paper feed sacks cut halfway down with a "flap" in which to catch the second and subsequent kids so they don't land in the first kid's mess. These sacks are also very useful for wrapping up the afterbirth for disposal.

    10) Clean old washcloths and a small clean plastic bucket of clean warm soapy water to clean the doe's udder after she kids.

    11) A clean 20-ounce plastic pop bottle with black rubber nipple to feed colostrum to newborn kids. A new 18-gauge 1-1/2" needle pushed into the lower rim of the nipple will provide an air vent; this prevents the creation of a vacuum inside the bottle when the kid sucks and makes it much easier for the kid to get colostrum.

    12) Popsicle sticks and surgical tape to splint weak legs in case the kid can't stand.

    13) Feed-grade molasses to mix with warm water to feed to the doe after she gives birth. A handful of raisins or roasted peanuts will reward the doe for a job well done.

    14) A thermometer and a stethoscope. A goat's normal body temperature should be in the range of 102.5 degrees to 104 degrees F. Normal heart rate should be 60 to 80 beats per minute, but it might be slightly higher in the newborn.

    Anyone see something odd here??? WHY are people being told to pull the babies from mommas??? Under this article was an add for Kid Milk Replacer as a Spotlight sell item
     

  3. GotmygoatMTJ

    GotmygoatMTJ New Member

    Maybe they are still newbies and still think everyone pulls their kids if they want them healthy.
    I found alot of the things funny. Like the NEED for clean clothes during kidding. "OOPS! I got birthing goo on my clean overalls! I have to go change for the next kid!" ...............
     
  4. VickiH

    VickiH New Member

    138
    Sep 24, 2010
    Ohio
    It had me scratching my head as well :scratch: Clean clothes for the birth? Seriously? :ROFL: It seems like they recommend pulling the kids too :shrug:
     
  5. KW Farms

    KW Farms Moderator Supporting Member

    Jun 21, 2008
    Wapato, WA
    Wow...that kidding list is pretty insane. A paper bag to catch the next kid so it doesn't get in the first kids "mess"??? This information is just something that shouldn't be given out...especially for people new to goats.

    A kid should never be pulled and put straight on milk replacer unless it is absolutely necessary...as in mom dies or something. That's how to raise kids the wrong way.

    I would email Purina and complain. I don't see photos of the "pygmy" goats, but to some...any small goat is a "pygmy."...which is annoying.
     
  6. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    HAHAH - they just wrote back - will copy and paste their response!

    My original message to them (limited characters allowed)

    I received your email from the rewards program yesterday - and I am extremely concerned with the information that it contained. The first article was about a lady and her pygmy goats.... great article - but the goats are not pygmy (well one is - but one definately is not - so this is confusing to "newbie" goat people) but what really, really concerns me is your article on "prepping for a kid" I was a vet nurse for 8 years, along with owning my goat farm for the last 4 - you talk in it (#3) about a box to put the kids in and then (#11) about having the soda bottle and pritchard nipple. NO where does it state anything about proper care, nutrition, or handling of kids and about bottle raising. Bottle raising is not the answer for new goat owners or inexperienced "goat wranglers" This can cause immediate death to a kid if not taken care of properly and given colostrum - yet right under this article is your "spot light sale" for Kid milk replacer. Very Concerning in my eyes!


    Purina's response -

    This article isn't intended to be an in depth article on the nutrition of bottle raising a kid. It is a basic checklist for preparing for your goats to kid and to help prepare for the common issues with kidding. It is not intended to replace a veterinarian or imply that all kids need to be bottle fed.

    Animals make better people,
    We make Better Animals

    Thanks and have a good day! :)



    ..· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-
    ·´ .·´¨¨))
    ((¸¸.·´ ..·´ Dawn Holland-:¦:-
    -:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*



    Animal Care Specialist
     
  7. bleatinghearts

    bleatinghearts New Member

    514
    Feb 26, 2010
    Fairbanks, AK
    Really? Not saying that a heat lamp and electric cord arn't something to have on hand but 1-there has to be enough room for any animal to get away from the heat source if needed, and 2-I dont know if I would ever tell someone (newbie or not) that cardboard and heat lamps are a good match. Just say'en.
     
  8. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    well, I just wrote a VERY lengthy email back to her - so we will see what she has to say about it :) I can just see all kinds of hurt / dead animals from this, unfortunately. Told her the #1 thing on that list should have been an emergency contact # for a vet!
     
  9. KW Farms

    KW Farms Moderator Supporting Member

    Jun 21, 2008
    Wapato, WA
  10. OhCee

    OhCee Yak Lady

    609
    Feb 26, 2010
    Western MT
    Their coupons are good, but their emails are crap...
     
  11. GotmygoatMTJ

    GotmygoatMTJ New Member

    I just really don't like Purina in the first place....this just proves my point. :)
    *Note- If you use Purina, and like it, do so, just my opinion. :D
     
  12. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    I use their dairy goat Noble grain, their Land o lakes calf formula, Stretena grain for the cows (I think is by them) and their medicated feed for the kids - but now I am a little concerned that maybe they do not know enought about goats ... but nutritionally, the goats and cows have done well on it

    Oh and Layena for the birds
     
  13. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    I too thought that their "informational" email was odd.....Apparently they really need to have an education on goats.

    I agree...those "pygmy" wethers were definately not "pygmies" :wink:
     
  14. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    I do want to say that I did receive a phone call from Purina today. When I wrote my LENGTHY email back to them, the "animal specialist" forwarded the email to her manager. The manager said, that do to my email and the information provided, they are revisiting the information gathering process and are placing new policies for obtaining information. She said that she appriciated the information that was given and that it is positive criticism that they need to be able to redefine their process and improve.

    I am glad that they "listened" to the concerns and it did not go unanswered!
     
  15. KW Farms

    KW Farms Moderator Supporting Member

    Jun 21, 2008
    Wapato, WA
    That was very responsible of them. I'm glad they didn't just push it aside because there is some very misleading info. in that email.
     
  16. GotmygoatMTJ

    GotmygoatMTJ New Member

    Wow. That was very nice of them to call you. :)
     
  17. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    Massachusetts
    I'm glad Purina has taken well to the "positive criticism" but I think we need to remember that every goat breeder is going to have a different take on how they deal with their kiddings. For some that article may have been perfect, but for some it was far from it. On this forum we are not here to criticize others practices. By saying this is all wrong may offend some members, which I am sure was not the purpose of it. But I think we just need to remember to take info with a grain of salt, take what we want and put away the rest. :)
     
  18. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    I do not think that anyone said that it was flat out wrong - I believe we all have concerns as to what the article has and what it does not - suck as the cardboard box with a heat light and extension cord, or the bottle with nipple but no other information with it to give a reason for its uses or proper uses.

    Most, if not all, of the members are here to gather information or to get help when needed and to also share their love of goats. My concern is for the novice individual that uses the purina flyer as their only guide as to what to do when kidding and the concern for their goats and mommas. There is just enough information in this flyer, but at the same time not enough information. Such as another very important item to have on hand (much more so than clean clothes) would be the nasal aspirator. This is the information that I was speaking with them about in my email response to Purina (which if you would like me to post that also, I can) :thumb:
     
  19. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    Massachusetts
    That would be great! :thumb:
     
  20. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    Here it is for review - THIS IS MY RESPONSE AND MY FEELINGS :wink:

    Unfortunately, that is exactly what it is implying to any new goat owner that does not know the difference, or had the experience, in what they are to be doing. By saying to place a kid immediately into a cardboard box after birth has the potential to make the dam more unlikely to clean the kid, get the mucus out of the nose, or to get the kid to nurse for vital colostrum. Also, with the electrical cord and heat light, this can be dangerous as it can raise the body temperature of the kid to high, due to not being able to get out of the direct heat if placed over a box. These are the maing things that are concerning.

    I have forwarded the email to other goat breeders and also posted for feedback from friends and fellow goat breeders who are also scratching their heads, not because it is a bad article, but by looking at it through the eyes of a novice goat owner (which we tend to get a lot of questions from). The concerns are that there are more important things that need to be on hand and addressed, or explained in more detail, for the safety of the animals.

    Just wondering, also, where did this information come from? Did a vet help with the information? I would personally be more concerned with my Vet's number in case of emergency and bulb syringe for clearing airways after birth rather than sterile gloves (which most livestock vets are not going to do for an internal exam in an emergency) and clean coveralls. But that is just the goat world / and livestock owner consensus, as many of us have to do a lot of our farm work and emergency issues on our own, as in a lot of areas, there are not vets who are willing to treat goats, or are inexperienced with goats.

    I do still believe that it is misleading and others that have read it feel like this could pose potential issues in the goat world. Just saying, next time, you might want some input from people who do this as a passion and as part of their lives before sending to "print", as most of us would be more than happy to help in any way possible ?

    I have been a big "pro" purina for over 10 years when it came to livestock feeds and even small animal feeds - but I am very concerned with the information in this article, which is why I wrote. I think it is great to have a kidding checklist (and mandatory), but it needs to a "real" checklist of how kidding really works, happens and why things are needed or use of. I believe that there is great information in this article, but not enough information to know/understand what the different items are for or how they are used, or even missing information.
    Thank you for understanding the concerns of the goat community, and if there is anything that we can do to help, please let me know.

    Allison Spacek
    Sunset Lake Ranch
    509.499.5828