Question about teeth....

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by MiddleRiver, Oct 29, 2007.

  1. MiddleRiver

    MiddleRiver New Member

    155
    Oct 29, 2007
    Northwest WI
    My buck ( 8.5 yrs old ) seems to have too - long of teeth. His bottom front teeth are so long that they irritate his top lip, and it's now swollen - he is still eating and drinking, and when he courts a doe and flips his lip i see the red mark where they rub. He has a good bite, but is just over growing ???? What can be done for this ? Can you file/float teeth like you can in horses ? Thanks !!!
     
  2. sweetgoats

    sweetgoats Moderator

    Oct 18, 2007
    Peyton CO.
    WOW, no you can not float them, (at least as far as I know). That is a very bad under bite. Pretty soon he will not be able to graze like he should. his lip will get sore enough that he will stop eating. Really watch that he still eats, when he stops, he will have to be put down.
    The only reason I know anything about this is the Judge at our state fair was telling me this because she saw a few older does really bad like that and a few younger ones, and she was showing me how they start, and how they will get worse. ( I was lucky enough to be in the ring and be her assistant).
     

  3. sparks879

    sparks879 New Member

    you can float the back teeth, they get sharp edges just like horses do which causes packets and they get food stuck in there. A vet that has the stuff to float a miniature horses mouth can doe a goat, im not sure what to do about the front teeth, i don;t know is ou can trim them like a rabbits or guinea pigs teeth.....
    We had to do that lots with the guinea pigs when they had over grown teeth. You may want to call a vet and ask about it.can you get a picture of him smiling? offer him a doe and get him doing his flehman thing. so we can see the teeth?
    Judging by the picture you posted of him on the gt thread he doesn;t have an undershot jaw
    here is a decent picture of an undershot jaw with the mouth open
    http://www2.luresext.edu/goats/training ... html#mouth
    are you sure its a line where the teeth are rubbingZ? somew goats have colored spots on the inside of their mouths. If you scroll down on that page there is a bunch of pictures showing how to tell a goats age my his teeth. There is a picture os an animal that is 8.5 years the same age as gt. Do his teeth look like that? as goats get older their gum line receeds and their teeth appear longer then younger goats.
    being a broken colored goat it wouldn;t surprise me if he has spots of different colored flesh in his mouth. Chrome has a large darker pink spot under her upper lip. It looks likt gts pigment on his nose varies so its quit possible it does in his mouth as well.




    beth
     
  4. MiddleRiver

    MiddleRiver New Member

    155
    Oct 29, 2007
    Northwest WI
    sparks879 - Yes his teeth kind look like that, but actually, look better but longer ??? Does that make sense ? He does also have some spotted skin as well lol - but i have noticed on his left side (top) right where the gums meet the lip, he has a red line of irritation from his teeth.

    He surely does NOT have a bad bite - i do know what a good bite looks like ( and thanks for the pics sparks879 ) and he has a good bite, but he is 8.5 yrs old and his mouth is starting to show his age.

    no missing teeth either, i think maybe his teeth in the back may be off, causeing him to chew more on one side and hold his bottom jaw more to the left - as you can see him (recently ) holding it to the left, and a little bit of drool ( when i have something yummy ) coming out his right side.

    I don't have a dig. camera, but will see what i can do for a pic. And i'll get my vet out to look at him as well - i want to keep this guy in the best shape possible - he is part of the family - stinky, but loved :+) Thanks !
     
  5. enjoytheride

    enjoytheride New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Humboldt Co Ca
    I can't see why the incisors can't be evened up by the vet. It sounds like the bite is OK except for it being a little higher where the irritation is. I think that you must be a good goat mom to have even seen this.
    But could it be that he is engaging in some behavior that is causing the irritation like rubbing his teeth on something on one side? If there are any rubber or chewed spots in his area, this might account to it too?
    Also I know horses can get irritated gums if they are c=cropping something hard like too much corn.
    And one last thought- sometimes an uneveness in the molars can show up as an irritation on the front because the chew surface is off.
     
  6. sparks879

    sparks879 New Member

    i would deffinatly ask the vet about floating the rear teeth, he is definatly at about the right age where they may be over growing and causing pain while eating. That is probably what is contributing to the drueling. It sounds like one side may be worse then the other.
    You may even be able to check them yourselves. With my older goats i try and check teeth monthly, i hold the tounge to one side (they won't bite their own tounge) and run my fingers along their teeth. they hate it and it can be a little difficult but its worth it to not have the vet out everytime someone may have a potential tooth problem. We used to do the same thing with the horses.
    I completly understand about him being loved. he is an older man and has definalty paid for himself many times over. and you want him to be happy. What is his diet? What kind of hay is he getting?

    beth
     
  7. MiddleRiver

    MiddleRiver New Member

    155
    Oct 29, 2007
    Northwest WI
    AWWWWW ..... Thanks enjoytheride ! I'm new to goats, but we love them and do notice ( most of the time ) when something is wrong :+) I felt like a fool one day because i woke up to get ready for work and noticed my pig ( a pot bellie that lives in the house and is like a spoiled child ) was just "off" - so i called into work - and as i hung up, i'm like =, gosh i hope my supervisor doesn't think i'm lying !!! Called the vet - turns out she just needed some laxative and pepto, but still :+)

    GT i think will need to be sedated for anyone to look in his mouth - it's the only thing he won't stand still for - what is a safe way for the vet to do this ( he is good, but younger - and i worry ) ?

    I bet you guys figured it out and it's really his back teeth - as yesterday his lip (top left only ) was even more swollen and to one side like it's not alligned in the back - i was watching him eat and he was having a hard time with the hay - like he kept biting off more then he could chew and would spit it out - and it only hung out one side of his mouth, with drool. So it's getting worse and needs to be fixed asap - waiting now for the vet to call me back. I gave him some afalfa pellets to eat - which like always went down w/out a problem :+)

    He eats grass hay, alfalfa pellets ( just a bit ) and grain and BOSS for a treat. He also browses a bit and lots of freash clean water.

    They have loose minerals AND a mineral block ( which was just put in there about the time i noticed his lip ) - he chews on the block the most - could that be irritating his lips too ? How about all the urine he drinks ? yuck

    Thanks !!!
     
  8. enjoytheride

    enjoytheride New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Humboldt Co Ca
    Well- dumdum me just noticed that you had already mentioned the back teeth in a previous post. It's amazing how much I miss when reading. Anyway I bet that's a good shot at it.
    But I would carefully question the vet as I don't thin most vets have done this or are experienced with goats at all. I hope the vet is very careful about sedating- my vet said there are some newer things that are not so hard on goats but I can't remember the name. Anyway if you have this done, it would be interesting to hear you experiences. Good luck.
     
  9. MiddleRiver

    MiddleRiver New Member

    155
    Oct 29, 2007
    Northwest WI
    I miss things too sometimes - no worries. I'll keep you all updated on it. If you can think of whats safe to sedate an old goat please let me know so i can talk it over with my vet.

    He is good, and likes goats, he is still learning though too - but has no issues with saying he doesn't know, and then going and finding the answer. He is easy to work with, and is great with animals. Thanks all !
     
  10. MiddleRiver

    MiddleRiver New Member

    155
    Oct 29, 2007
    Northwest WI
    Ok, i talked to the vet, just as i figured he couldn't tell me much without seeing it himself, but said it sounds like his teeth and he can do work on them if thats it. He also said it's most likely not, but could also be some sort of diease - but assured me it truely sounds like a old goat with teeth issues. He is calling me again today to set up an appointment however won't be able to make it out for at least a week. Wish us luck !
     
  11. MiddleRiver

    MiddleRiver New Member

    155
    Oct 29, 2007
    Northwest WI
    Well the vet is going to be out on Mon. so i'll let you all know how it goes on Tue. - Thanks !
     
  12. sparks879

    sparks879 New Member

    I will be interested to hear what he says on this one....


    beth
     
  13. MiddleRiver

    MiddleRiver New Member

    155
    Oct 29, 2007
    Northwest WI
    The vet came....

    His front tooth that was causing the sores - the vet filed it down a bit so it wouldn't be in the way so much - it is also loose and the vet said he will lose it soon then won't be a problem. He checked his back teeth - they seemed fine he said. He gave him some banamine, and left some for me to give him ( 4-days worth if need be ).

    He was concerned that there my be another issue going on though, he was paler then he would like, and though it could be caused by his tooth, his loosing weight and just not looking "right" could be something else, he was thinking maybe liver or kidneys - so we drew blood and i'm a waiting the results, should get them Wed. or Thurs. - will let you all know.

    He ( the vet) even noticed he had dropped weight and his hair coat is worse then the last time he saw him - which was a few weeks ago when he was out to de-horn our calves.

    Thats another thing - when i got him he was in rough shape, half bald, terrible feet etc. I'm getting his feet better, and got his hair/worm issue taken care of, and this summer he looked great, but in the last few weeks he is going down hill - he has thin hair, and doesn't seem to be growing in a winter coat and it is getting very cold here. I can see his skin through his thin hair along his back and a few other places - what can i do about this ? Thanks all - please keep your fingers crossed for my sweet boy :+)
     
  14. enjoytheride

    enjoytheride New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Humboldt Co Ca
    It always something isn't it? Good to get a simple fix on the tooth thing.
    Thin hair can be caused by so many things- mineral decifiencies, worms, lice, etc a-anything that effects condition effects the coat.
    Did the vet do a fecal? I think that is where I would start. Then as one vet told me in his snotty but accurate fashion when I complained about a horse losing weight- "Feed him more." In your case I might try adding some good mineral mix for goat right on top of his feed. Maybe the more experienced can give something specific that would help.
    If he's breeding a lot, that can cause him to lose condiion too.
    Are there any other symptoms besides loss of condition?
     
  15. sweetgoats

    sweetgoats Moderator

    Oct 18, 2007
    Peyton CO.
    Have you done a fecal on him? Maybe he has liver flukes, and that is causing the pale gums and the bad coat. Also that can be caused by a lack of copper. Now I have goats that loose ALL their hair in the spring, I mean ALL their hair. They look like hairless goats. My vet said for me to give them a shot of Vit A&D. When I do thatthey look really good.
    I hope the tests come back fine, and that he just needs something very easy. Good luck
     
  16. MiddleRiver

    MiddleRiver New Member

    155
    Oct 29, 2007
    Northwest WI
    No fecal, that will be done soon though. I'm wondering if he ( and my does ) do need copper though. One thing i haven't ever been able to fix on him is the tip of his tail is bald. I think (could just be me ) that my girls are starting to lose their hair there to.

    All i have on hand is equine (1.87%) ivermection paste - but i think i'll start by giving him that - will that take care of liver flukes ?

    Everybody got a bo-se shot last night too. I asked the vet about copper but he didn't say much - i want to give my goats some, but don't have a clue how to go about it - and i have a feeling that may help them all - but the vet didn't seemed concerned with it.

    He really isn't breeding much and isn't next to the girls so isn't worked up all the time - so far he has bred only 5 does this year.

    I need this fella to get healthy and grow a good winter coat. There are no goat only minerals in my area - so instead of the goat/sheep i give them a beef cow mineral ( loose ). How much BOSS can i give him ? Will that help with his coat ? Thanks all - any suggestions are welcome :+)

    Oh, and other then general "off" and "loss of condition" there aren't any other issues really that i notice. His temp is normal - but he is pale with at crappy hair coat again ( not as bad though as when i got him - it got better and is now worse again).
     
  17. goathappy

    goathappy New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Illinois
    Copper and iodine and I *think* zinc are all the minerals linked to skin problems. Do you have access to kelp in your area? Feeding that should help him tremendously. Also, copper drenches would also help really good: http://u-sayranch.com/goats/coppersulfate.html
    What are you feeding him? Do you have access to barley in your area? Barley is great for weight gain and energy. Also, have you tried Fastrack? If Stacey hasn't mentioned it yet it is a live microbial supplement that aids in digestion, it helps them to utilize their feed better. We give it to those that can't keep good weight on and it helps very much. You can email me goathappy@gmail.com if you are interested.
     
  18. enjoytheride

    enjoytheride New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Humboldt Co Ca
    No Ivermectin does not get flukes- Curetrem (sp?) and Ivomec Plus do- and liver flukes are hard because they sometimes don't show up in fecals until they have already done damage. I would worm with the Ivermectin anyway- Can't hurt and might do the trick if his problem is the kinds of worms it gets. I would do it more than once.
    Fishtails are a aymptom of copper deficiency- from what I understand , getting a blood test does not necessary resolve copper problem. There is a good site on copper issues- http://www.saanendoah.com. But you need tobe careful of copper as too much is toxic too.
     
  19. goathappy

    goathappy New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Illinois
    ETJ, if an animal is severely deficient, then it would be hard to OD them. With the copper drenches, since it is only a 1% solution it is impossilbe to OD them, but it gives them just enough copper to get back on the road to being sufficient in the mineral.
    Have you tried Valbazen if he has liver flukes? Valbazen is not widely used and it covers quite a few different worms. I've had really good results with it, you just can't use it on pregnant does.
     
  20. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    sounds like you are dealing with a copper deficency. The coat issues you describe a long with the funky tails (called fish tails) means a copper deficency.

    What mineral are you useing? sometimes it isn't enough even if made for goats.

    I do suggest you get some for of copper supplement - drenches are simple enough to do.