Question for breeder who give CDT and Bo-SE

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by goatblessings, Sep 29, 2020.

  1. goatblessings

    goatblessings Fair-Haven Supporting Member

    Jan 5, 2015
    Southwest Ohio
    So, I may be opening a can of worms here, but that's OK!!! This is a question for breeders who give CDT and Bo-Se in particular. I've always given approximately one month prior to kidding, and yes our area is extremely deficient in selenium, even with loose minerals provided, they do need extra. Some other breeders are saying they vaccinate and give Bo-Se just prior to breeding, as they feel that in some does, the one month prior to breeding can cause premature kidding, soon after the innoculation.

    What is your experience and/or thoughts in this line of thinking? Will the kids be protected against tetanus and entero if given prior to breeding?Just as an FYI, I usually give a Bo-Se twice a year - once in fall and once in that one month window. CDT, always one month prior to kidding. Thanks for everyones thoughts on this........ I had one premature kidding last year that made me wonder...... one day after her innoculation. Could have been the evil witch that liked to slam everyone as well (who has happily left my herd). Really hoping to see this doe's kids this year, but don't want to risk a problem.....
     
  2. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    The kids will be protected for a short while after coming into this world.

    Selenium, if you give it to mama a month prior, will give the kids some.
    But do know, if they still show signs, you may have to give a little shot after they are born.
    Sometimes not all kids get all nutrients from mama within.
    Such as minerals and nutrients.

    But with CD&T they do.
     
    laurelsh and goatblessings like this.

  3. NDinKY

    NDinKY Well-Known Member

    645
    Aug 3, 2019
    Kentucky
    We BoSe our does twice a year. Once in the fall before breeding and then once in the spring 3 weeks before their due date. We CDT once a year 3 weeks before the due date. So far we’ve not had any problems and the kids should have some passive immunity from their dam (we dam raise).
     
  4. ksalvagno

    ksalvagno Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    I personally have never had a problem with giving a BoSe shot in the 11 years I have owned goats. But quite frankly there is always a possibility of a reaction no matter what you inject.
     
  5. Goats Rock

    Goats Rock Member

    Jun 20, 2011
    NE Ohio
    I agree with the above posts. I've never had a problem with giving cdt and Bo Se, but have had problems when I didn't.
    Even if there was a bad reaction resulting in an early kidding, it would probably take longer than a day for her to abort.
     
  6. goatblessings

    goatblessings Fair-Haven Supporting Member

    Jan 5, 2015
    Southwest Ohio
    thanks for all the input..... I've never had a problem either, but, too much reading messes with my brain sometimes.......her kids were early, but live. Triplets, was able to save one premie. With such a hard kidding year last year, trying to cover my bases prior to breeding. All over the place - one doe who had nerve damage, the early doe, and one that kidded in the dead of cold, so babies in the house again, one with malpresentation of triplets that I had to pull. Except for the premature kids - I didn't lose more thank goodness. After months of treatment for the doe with nerve damage, unfortunately I couldn't help her any more. She of course was my favorite.... it seems it always goes this way. Probably my hardest year ever, but nothing consistent as to causes, so I just hope this year is better.
     
  7. laurelsh

    laurelsh Active Member

    659
    Jun 26, 2013
    Arroyo Grande, CA
    I give CDT & BoSe 1 month prior to kidding, and BoSe 2x a year to adults. No problems! Sometimes I still need to give BoSe to newborns to help with bent legs. All okay here!
     
  8. goatblessings

    goatblessings Fair-Haven Supporting Member

    Jan 5, 2015
    Southwest Ohio
    I’m just reading some conflicting info elsewhere... but I. Think I will stick with my protocol... thanks for everyone s experiences and happy kidding to all
     
  9. Ranger1

    Ranger1 Well-Known Member

    Sep 1, 2014
    Before we got our selenium issues figured out, we had to give BoSe at 4 and 2 weeks before kidding, so that the kids weren’t born with deficiency symptoms. Never had an issue with preterm labor.
     
  10. Jessica84

    Jessica84 Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2011
    California
    I give a month(ish) before kidding. What I mean by that is I am not going to gather them all up a month before EVERY single due date and give 1 or 2 a shot at a time. So like this month at roughly the 26 I will give the shots to everyone. The 26 is a month before the first doe is due. I really haven’t had a issue other then when I was very late giving it to them and then I had kids born but they died shortly after. They had a heart beat but just laid there and died........another story for another time lol
    I think people tend to pick certain info out and just kinda forget the reasoning behind it. So the new cattle protocol for vaccines is to give at any time of stress. So I think some people are going to the CDT because they view breeding as stressful. I can see the BOSE because if they are selenium deficient then they won’t settle. Now going with the shots at breeding before kidding I think it probably depends on the herd also. If I had crazy numbers and they were a bit waspy and it stressed them out to handle them (give vaccines) then I would probably also go with before breeding. Goats don’t do stress well and they will abort over stress.
    So IMO here, I would just keep doing what your doing ;) with 1 goat out of however many you have times however many years you have had goats, I’m sure that comes out to 1 in many many many lol but I totally get it. I am the same way. 1 thing goes wrong and I am a mad woman on trying to figure out how to never have that happen again. Usually I have to sit down and think and realize sometimes crap simply happens.
     
  11. goatblessings

    goatblessings Fair-Haven Supporting Member

    Jan 5, 2015
    Southwest Ohio
    Thanks Jessica - you are on the same page! Yup, one thing goes wrong and I'm frenzied thinking that I did something wrong. In over a decade of goats, I haven"t had one premature kidding, but thought it was odd being so soon after the shot. Of course she is the one I absolutely have to have a doe kid out of! Think I'm going try to relax and try to just go with whatever HE brings me again this year. I do have a question though - getting ready to put in an order. Do you have a preference for CDT brand? One more question - same doe just bred 5 days ago, and of course she sprained her front left. Is banamine safe or should I just wait it out. She holds it up, does put weight on it if she wants to move with the herd. No blood, puncture, etc. just think she got it stuck somewhere. Eating, drinking fine, etc.
     
  12. Goats Rock

    Goats Rock Member

    Jun 20, 2011
    NE Ohio
    I would personally not give any drugs the first few weeks of pregnancy- you want that embryo to get a firm grip. Can you wrap the leg to give a little support?

    You didn't ask me directly, but I like Colorado for CDT. Hundreds of shots and only one little lump. I give over the rib cage just so I know if a lump develops, what it is. Years ago, I had a Boer/Nubian have a reaction to the CDT that TSC sells. Her ears swelled up and she had trouble breathing. (12 years ago) But that was the only bad reaction in 12 years.
     
  13. goatblessings

    goatblessings Fair-Haven Supporting Member

    Jan 5, 2015
    Southwest Ohio
    Goats Rock - very much appreciate you (and anyone's) input! The more the merrier! I don't ever buy from TSC for much of anything. - Don't trust the holding and handling, but I love input on the brands, etc. I'm waiting on doing much of anything for the doe - I don't like to give them anything either, but if she were getting worse, etc., wanted to know my options. Thank you so much!
     
  14. Jessica84

    Jessica84 Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2011
    California
    I agree I just try to stay away from giving anything to a bred doe especially very short bred. If you can I would get her and a buddy and just put them in a small pen together so she doesn’t have to move around much. She will be ok without pain meds.
    I also use the Colorado for mine but I’ll be honest the little injection lumps don’t bother me when they get them (which really are not many) I just get that brand because it’s usually cheaper. I have gotten the other brand (can’t think of the name at the moment) but I honestly have never paid much attention to which one leaves more of those little bumps. I have (knock on wood) never had a reaction using either.