Questions about ADGA registration?

Discussion in 'Dairy Diaries' started by bagelbeagle, Jul 1, 2020.

  1. bagelbeagle

    bagelbeagle New Member

    24
    May 4, 2020
    Michigan
    So I bought a registered alpine doe and her two doelings from a breeder a few weeks ago. I'm a complete newbie to goats, but I've been looking into how to get her kids and an unrelated alpine buckling I also bought registered with ADGA. From what it looks like, the Alpine doe just needs transfer papers to show that I bought her and own her now, but the kids need to be actually registered. While the buckling seems pretty straightforward being that he's just a full alpine, the doe and her doelings are more confusing.
    First question: the doe I purchased ended up being an experimental 75% alpine doe, which I understand meaning that she isn't technically a full alpine doe, but if I breed her to a full alpine buck, then those kids will be full registerable alpine kids?
    Second question: the experimental doe's doelings are half lamancha, half alpine. The sire was a full registered lamancha, so do I register them as 50% alpine, 50% lamancha, or are they only registerable as 50% lamancha because the dam is experimental? I ask this because on the paper work given to me, the breeder listed the doelings as "Alpine/Lamancha grade" on one of the doeling's breed section on the application and "Grade/Experimental" on the other's application. Also, the breeder marked them as conforming to the alpine breed standard, but they have elf ears, not erect ears which the paperwork says is breed standard for alpines.
    Sorry if none of this is making sense or if I'm missing something obvious. I just want to get this right the first time so I don't have to send it back in if I make a mistake. I've never done it before, and I can't seem to find a straight answer anywhere on the paperwork or on the ADGA site, but I might just be missing it somewhere. Thanks for any help!
     
  2. ksalvagno

    ksalvagno Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    The kids would be Grade. I would call ADGA.
     
    Ashlynn likes this.

  3. HungryFox

    HungryFox Well-Known Member

    262
    Feb 6, 2020
    New England
    Breeder should have provided either original registrations or applications for registrations. Original registration would require the transfer section filled out.
    They will be grades. Breeding a 75% anything to anything will still result in a grade. 6 generations of purebreeding are required to again reach purebred herdbook entry.
    ADGA responds fairly quickly via email, especially if you attach any documents you do have for the respondant to understand what they're looking at.
     
  4. Courtney De St Jean

    Courtney De St Jean Member

    59
    Apr 18, 2019
    Lakeville, IN
    Did you receive the ADGA certificate with the doe? Also for the kids the breeder should have provided a registration application, and would need a service memo if she did not own the buck that sired the kids that came with the doe. Does that make sense?
     
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  5. bagelbeagle

    bagelbeagle New Member

    24
    May 4, 2020
    Michigan
    The breeder gave me an application for registration for both doelings as well as two service memos, so it makes sense so far, thanks! I don't have a bill of sale from the breeder though for either the doe or the doelings, but I think it is required for registration(?) so I'll have to ask the breeder about getting one. As for the doe, I was given a certificate of pedigree with a certificate of transfer section at the bottom, so is that what I need for the doe?
     
  6. bagelbeagle

    bagelbeagle New Member

    24
    May 4, 2020
    Michigan
    Thanks for the response! So if I have this right, the kids would be registered as grade, but would this be grade as an alpine or a lamancha? Also, since it's 6 generations of purebreeding, does that mean that the 75% experimental doe with a full registered alpine would not have full registerable alpine kids? Thank you so much for your time!
     
  7. Courtney De St Jean

    Courtney De St Jean Member

    59
    Apr 18, 2019
    Lakeville, IN
    Yes for ADGA that should be all you need. Other registrations need bill of sale if you’re not a member like AGS but with ADGA all you need is the original certificate that the breeder/seller should have signed for you.

    ADGA is usually very responsive and helpful so if you’re not sure you can always call/email them. But I have probably had 50 registered goats come in and out of my possession through ADGA and have never needed a bill of sale I hope this helps!
     
  8. HungryFox

    HungryFox Well-Known Member

    262
    Feb 6, 2020
    New England
    They will have their grade percentage listed at the top of the certificate for each breed.
    In order to get an animal back to purebred status, one would have to choose one of their breeds to favor, Alpine for example. A 75% Alpine bred to a purebred Alpine delivers kids that are 87.5% grade Alpine, remaining breed percentages listed as well. That kid bred to purebred would produce a 93.5% (I think, numbers top of head) Alpine grade, again the remaining breed percentage listed. That kid, bred to purebred, finally brings one back into the American herdbooks at 100%.

    Note, Nigerians are never registered unless purebred except through IDGR (which really needs to get moving on things to make themselves valued in mainstream goat world. I love their mission, but I dual register with ADGA etc so that my herd is considered of quality.)
     
  9. lottsagoats1

    lottsagoats1 Well-Known Member

    Apr 12, 2014
    Middle Maine
    You can never get to purebred status unless the herd book is still open, as it is with Sables and Lamanchas. You can never get a purebred Alpine from a grade, the highest it goes will be American.

    If they have elf ears, they do not meet Alpine breed criteria, but they do meet Lamancha. They would be registered as Experimental, with the % of each breed listed at the top of the registration certificate. I have several that are like that. I have Lamancha/Nubian crosses, with the Lamancha side being the side that is not purebred or American. My Lamancha buck was sterile this past fall, so I bred all my % Lamanchas to my Nubian, which made for some interesting % along the top. I also had one purebred Lamancha doe, so her kids are purebred experimental (makes no sense to me, but whatever) while all the rest are grade experimental. The purebred experimental registry allows a buck to be registered and used for breeding, while a grade experimental is not.

    You can change the ear choices yourself, just check the elf box and cross out the erect. Just send a note saying that the breeder checked the wrong one accidentally, which you corrected.
     
  10. bagelbeagle

    bagelbeagle New Member

    24
    May 4, 2020
    Michigan
    I knew that experimental alpines could only ever go to American, but do they still need the total 6 generations of breeding with full registered bucks like previously stated in other posts? I thought I saw somewhere that it goes up by increments of 25% until the kid is 7/8's of a breed and can be registered as full American, so a 75% doe would produce kids with full registration, but I don't know for sure. Thanks for the help!
     
  11. lottsagoats1

    lottsagoats1 Well-Known Member

    Apr 12, 2014
    Middle Maine
    Yes, they need to be bred to a registered buck of the same breed and meet the standards of that breed.

    American – the offspring of a sire and dam of the same breed that conforms to breed standards and also has the correct number of consecutive generations of ancestors who conformed to breed standards (minimum 3 generations for does and 4 for bucks).