questions about bucks-and advice on what to get

Discussion in 'Goat Frenzy' started by Dreamchaser, May 26, 2009.

  1. Dreamchaser

    Dreamchaser New Member

    Oct 29, 2008
    Camp Verde, AZ
    Okay where to start.

    My first question is, when you see a listing for a buck, you almost never see pictures of the buck. You see both the dam, and the sire's dam. I understand why they show the dams, but why do they never show the bucks?

    Second, and I know someone else asked this, but can you keep more than one buck together? If not, how far apart do they have to be. If they are anything like rams, then obviously not right next to eachother, or they ram the fence.

    Can you keep anything with a buck, say, a wether, or companion doe?

    I have 2 does, one Alpine, one Nubian. I want to get a great Alpine buck, and have been talking to the breeder. I won't say who right now. Anyway, I want to have quality animals. I know I'm not going to get quality from My doe, she's an unknown, but hopefully I can use her as an experimental doe and try to bring some color into my herd.

    Anyway, she said to do this right, I need to have a great foundation doe (makes sense) along with the great buck otherwise I'll spend a lot of time breeding up. Still makes sense.

    My question is: If you could only afford a certain amount what would you do:

    Buy the buckling first (You still have to freshen the other doe after all)

    Buy the doeling first (You can always freshen with another buck from someone else for the time being)

    Buy both a buck and a doe, but get ones that aren't as nice to start out with

    I can buy one great one this year, and buy another great one next year, or I can buy 2 that are really nice this year, but aren't GREAT.
     
  2. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    Massachusetts
    Yes you can house bucks together. I have enough that they stay together and keep each other company. But if you are just going to have one buck then I would get him a wether companion. I wouldn't give him a companion doe because he would just breed her all the time(Or try to) and stress both him and the doe out more than needed.

    I never understand why people don't show pictures of the bucks and only pictures of the parents. To me it dosen't make sense. I think his Dam's udder is very important and should be shown; but his conformation is equally important so I always ask for pictures of a buck I am interested in buying.

    It's up to you on what you get. I think I would go with a great buck first. He will be the foundation of your herd. You can breed him to not so great does, sell the does after kidding, and keep the kids. Hopefully most of the kids will be an improvement.
     

  3. liz

    liz Active Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    :thumbup: I agree with Ashley!

    And....I have 3 bucks together.
     
  4. sparks879

    sparks879 New Member

    I house my bucks together< but i do havea twenty by twenty area that i use for a breeding pen. I seperate the doe and buck i want bred together. Having a whether for a companion would be much better then a doe. AS the buck would be constantly bugging the doe. though i do find when my bucks are in full rut they ride eachother as well.
    As for the buck, the bucks udders he suposedly comes from his dam and sisters. Thats why people usually show the does in the lines. the bucks make a name for themselves by their doe offspring. Not all bucks that have good confirmation throw good kids. And vice versa some of the ugliest bucks have thrown then nicest kids. though i do like to see the pictures of the sire too.
    When people come to me looking for a buck or advice on getting a buck, i tell them to get the best they an afford. Go out and pay for the bloodlines. in the long run its going to be worth it. Afterall your buck alone is half your herd. he can cover 10 to 30 does a year deending on his age.
    I would get the nice buck now and if you want a nice doe next year. breeding up has been a lot of fun for me. seeing what works and what doesnt. You can have two of the nicest animals in the worl and they genetics might not click, the kids could be disasterous. I know a breeder that paid $1200 for a buck kid. His dam has been the national champion once and reserve several times. He ended up selling the buck at auction and kept none of his daughters, their medials were virtually non existant. the genetics just didnt work.
    I started out with so so does, and kept getting nice bucks. Now my does are doing very well in the show ring. some even topping their class at large shows.
    beth
     
  5. Sweet Gum Minis

    Sweet Gum Minis New Member

    Oct 6, 2007
    Easley, SC
    I agree too. I have 3 bucks as well and keep mine together. I don't keep junior bucks with mature bucks because they'll harrasss a junior buck as bad as a doe.

    I've heard it said that you can have a spectacular buck who is superior in confirmation from good lines and not produce one decent daughter though he himself is a champion. Then you can have a buck who is the ugliest thing on 4 legs and would never see a show ring in his life, but produces spectacular daughter one right after the other. I have owned a buck in the past who wasn't show quality enough to be taken out, he was also the wrong color for Nigerians and very narrow on the front end. I sold him before I had much chance to evaluate his kids and as a result I sold a great buck. His daughters were exceptional. Wide throughout, excellent escutcheons. Just stunning. I only have 1 left in my herd and I do wish I could encorperate more of him in my herd.

    So what I'm getting at is a lot of people judge books by the cover and will shun the pedigree and ancestors of that buck by his outward appearance. Also, bucks look best fully clipped and set-up in show poses, some people don't show bucks so they never get those photos. Some don't want to put hairy yellow buck pics on their website.

    Those are just my speculations and my opinions, they don't cover everyone's reasons. I have noticed though, that its normally standard sized goat breeds that omit the buck photos. Nigerian Dwarfs are almost always photographed.
     
  6. RowdyKidz

    RowdyKidz Senior Member

    Apr 2, 2009
    NW Ohio
    My three bucks are housed together.

    I agree with Ashley also. :)
     
  7. yonderhill

    yonderhill New Member

    182
    Jan 15, 2009
    Upstate NY
    I have to agree as well with the bucks... I have just wrapped up my search for bucks to add to our herd.. We got some pretty awesome ones!!:) Don't bargain shop for your boys, but don't put yourself in the poorhouse either.. Look at your does, what are their weak spots, find a buck that is strong on that area.. or comes from a line that is strong, Pay what you can afford...
    We are going to have 4 boys housed together.. Sadly one is a junior buck.. but from speaking with various breeders he'll probably get bullied for awhile, but as he ages will be able to give as good as he gets so We are just going to keep a close eye on him and move him if necessary....
    I was aloso going to say I have not had trouble finding pics of ND bucks..
    Good Luck on your search...It's fun looking for a buck to mesh with your herd!!!

    Jennah
     
  8. ProctorHillFarm

    ProctorHillFarm New Member

    I agree- you want to get the best buck you can for your money. They are essentially half of your herd :wink:

    Like the others said too, you can have a gorgeous buck with a fabulous granddam, and dam, and he still can end up throwing bad udders/conformation.
    Thats breeding I guess- its always a bit of a gamble, and nothing is guaranteed!

    We house all of our bucks together- the 09 boys will probably all stay together until they are yearlings- then they will go in with the rest of the bucks.
    (ugh- we have A LOT of bucks) :roll:
     
  9. Dreamchaser

    Dreamchaser New Member

    Oct 29, 2008
    Camp Verde, AZ
    Yeah. I was planning on getting a buck from a championship doe, but I don't really like her attitude. I would rather buy nice bucks from a friendly breeder I think than buy a buck with winning bloodlines from a person who is difficult. That was the plan, but things have not panned out the way I hoped.
     
  10. liz

    liz Active Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Keep searching, he may not fall into your lap right now but he will eventually!
     
  11. goathappy

    goathappy New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Illinois
    I have 5 bucks now(soon to be 6 :shades: :shocked: ) and I keep bucks of the same age together. I have two senior guys together, two yearling together separate from the seniors but they will be incorporated after last year's wethers get butchered, and the two buck kids will be kept separate until next breeding season.

    Ditto on what everybody else said: get the best buck you can afford. I kind of agree with sparks879 on buck confirmation though, to me it isn't as important since some of the ugliest bucks in history have had the best daughters. I mean, I'll make sure that the buck doesn't have any faults like split scrotums, double teats, wrong colors etc, but I'll still research the entire line and make sure that all the dam, all the granddams, if sisters if there are any, are correct as that will tell me that good traits tend to be passed on easily in that line to the females of the line.

    But to answer your other question.......personally I would get a really nice doe kid first, rather than a buck. The only reason I say that is so that you can build your gene pool a little bit in your herd before you add a buck. You can get a doe kid, and if you can find a nice buck in the area you can breed her to, then you'll have a generation of kids that would not be related to the buck you intend on purchasing. Thats just my 2 cents :)
     
  12. Sybil

    Sybil New Member

    140
    Dec 21, 2007
    Rainier, Oregon
    Buy the best you can afford. Ditto on spectacular looking bucks sometimes throwing awful looking kids, sometimes the ugliest buck with spectacular bloodlines throwing spectacular kids. You have to remember that 1/2 the genetics come from the doe too. Look and see how the bloodlines work in other herds and with other bloodlines. Just because you may want "bloodline A" doesn't mean it will mix well with what you have or make the improvements you may need in your herd. A lot of the time you have to learn from experience. Also if the doe can't reproduce "herself", preferably improve herself through her offspring, then you may never get ahead of the game. A lot of well known breeders started with a strong doe line and worked from there.....not all does meet the criteria(?). IT IS NOT EASY!!!!!
    Sue