Questions about Nigerian Dwarfs

Discussion in 'Mini Mania' started by keren, Nov 22, 2008.

  1. keren

    keren owned by goats

    Oct 26, 2008
    Australia
    Okay so I am at this stage seriously considering importing NDs into Australia through embryo's and/or semen. No live animals.

    Questions being, what are the leading breeders of these goats, those with superior quality stock in terms of conformation, udder quality, show winners etc. Can you point me to their websites please?

    The other question being, what do you think the response would be to this? Do ND breeders in the US routinely flush their does and offer embryos for sale? Would people be interested in doing this to create embryos to sell for export, as foundation stock for the breed in Australia?

    Cheers :coffee2:
     
  2. PiccoloGoat

    PiccoloGoat goat girl x0x0

    Sep 10, 2008
    Australia
    You know keren, I have been thinking about this for AGES

    You know if I was older and had money, I would be importing lines of ND into australia and creating them here
    Its so sad not having them :cry:

    How would the embryo work??

    :question:
     

  3. KW Farms

    KW Farms Moderator Supporting Member

    Jun 21, 2008
    Wapato, WA
  4. Laurel_Haven

    Laurel_Haven New Member

    768
    Oct 19, 2007
    South Carolina
    We are fortunate to have our Nigerians here in the US due to Kathleen Clapps of the Goodwood herd, who was one of the real pioneers of introducing us to the Nigerian Dwarf Goats through her breeding program. Other’s that followed in her footsteps to create and refine these dairy goats into the superior animals we see today IMO is David Millison of Woodhaven Farms, Gail Putcher of Gay-Mor, Sharon Boger of Caesar’s Villa, Shaula Parker of Willows, Denise Roye of Green Gate, Judy Veale of Stonewall (just to mention a few) Of course there are many I am forgetting to mention, but these are the true founders of the lines we see today. In my opinion they established the true dairy qualities we see in our Nigerian Dwarfs today. And ones I have looked for in establishing my own lines. And they are found somewhere in most all bloodlines you see today.
    While many of these breeders are now retired, several still privately own a few founding stock of Nigerians. And a few others are currently active in their breeding program. They are the ones I suggest you contact, should you be serious in this venture.
    A few outstanding herds that are still active today… Kelley Bussey of TX Twin Creeks, Anne Petersen of Rosasharn, Ed Kisner of Enchanted Hill, Bonnie Chandler of Fairlea, Valerie Ciesynski of Piddlin Acres, Sue Rucker of Buttin’Heads, Keith Harrell of NC PromisedLand, Audrey and Amy Kowalik of Lost Valley, William Kowalik of Hill Country's (Just recently retired), Sunni and Terry Florence of Flat Rocks… oh this list could go on and on but I will stop there and let someone else add to the list.
     
  5. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    Massachusetts
    Yeah, Fairlea goats are nice. :drool:

    I also like Dragonfly's goats.
     
  6. SDK

    SDK New Member

    Jun 26, 2008
    Yucaipa ca
    fairlea
    dragonfly
    OMF
    caesar's villa
    promiseland
    twincreeks
    buttinheads
    lost valley
     
  7. KW Farms

    KW Farms Moderator Supporting Member

    Jun 21, 2008
    Wapato, WA
    Oh yeah,,,totally forgot about Rosasharn and Dragonfly....those are real nice ones too!!
     
  8. capriola-nd

    capriola-nd New Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    Northwest Oregon
    My favorites are probably Rosasharn, Twin Creeks, and Flat Rocks. :) Rosasharn probably being the top pick. . . . they're animals are so very dairy and you cannot go wrong with all the Goodwood in their goats. Goodwood is actually my very favorite. . . . my favorite doe of ours, Sunset Splash is from a lot of Goodwood lines and is just beautiful!! :D
     
  9. keren

    keren owned by goats

    Oct 26, 2008
    Australia
    Piccolo, I am just so impressed with the quality of these goats, they outstrip many of the mainstream dairy animals you see in the show ring here in terms of conformation, mammary quality and dairy character. I can see these little goats being enormously popular as such a large proportion of Australians are following the 'sea change' trend and the number of lifestyle blocks is increasing at a fantastic rate. This type of family is looking for an animal small enough that they can keep two or three on their block, easy to handle and good for their young kids. There is also a resurgence of interest in self sufficiency to a degree and people are buying up family milkers like you wouldnt believe. The colours are an added benefit and will attract people to the breed even more. And there is a huge amount of interest in miniature goats in Australia, though the quality of the Australian-developed breeds is nothing like the Nigerian Dwarfs.

    There are a couple of ways of going about introducing a new breed into the country. Live animal imports are of course not allowed now due to our disease free status, AQIS only allows pet animals to be imported (cats, dogs, horses etc - not production animals). Semen can be imported from selected countries, and that is another option to consider with the ND's - but that would mean a grading up program by inseminating base Australian stock with ND semen and then back crossing the offspring to ND semen again and again until you get a high percentage ND animal. The third and I think superior method is to import embryos - so you superovulate a superior female and join her to a superior male, then flush the embryos out of her in the early stages before implantation. The embryos are then frozen, transported out here and can be put into recipient does (can be any breed - generally use rangeland or rangeland cross because they are cheap). At the end of it all you hopefully end up with a bunch of full brothers and sister of outstanding quality. If you use this method there is no need for breeding up and you can then later import semen when new lines are required.

    When the Boers were originally introduced from Sth Africa, they were a number of yrs in quarrantine (5 or 6 if memory serves me correctly) and a set number of animals had to be slaughtered to test for diseases and such. It was a long, long time before the first animals were let out of quarrantine.

    It is a VERY expensive process and also a looooong process, so chances are you will be older by the time they become available lol I will let you know how it all goes, anyway.

    For the US ND breeders: I am picking up that there are some pretty different styles of ND - some are shorter and stockier while others have a little more leg under them and are a finer more dairy type. Correct??

    Some basic questions - NDs breed all year round right, they are not strongly seasonal?
    What age/weight do you breed for the first time?
    How long does a lactation last - do you only get a years milk or can you milk through for two years?
    What do kids weight on average at birth?

    Thanks, I'm sure there will be more.
     
  10. KW Farms

    KW Farms Moderator Supporting Member

    Jun 21, 2008
    Wapato, WA
    Yeah, there are some lines of nigerians that tend to have a cobbier build and such and then there are some that are leaner, more refined, and better dairy qualities. I have a doe that has a stocky, shorter build, but throws extremely dairy kids every time. It really just depends on their breeding. But most nigerians tend to be real dairy. Just research their bloodlines and see how the goats look, that will give you a better idea on what they could produce if you cross with certain style...etc.

    They can be bred year round, although I have noticed with my herd that October/November, they seem to really show heat signs.

    We breed ours no younger than 7 months and they need to be at least 40 lbs. Some people breed younger, some weight til they're at least a year. It really depends on their growth size and weight, if you want to breed as soon as possible.

    Geesh, on milking...i'm not quite sure, i've only milked does for about 4 months, is the longest. I'm not much of a milker though. I'm sure they can go at least a year.

    ND kids average about 2 lbs. at birth. And they are CUTE!!!
     
  11. keren

    keren owned by goats

    Oct 26, 2008
    Australia
    Wow, 2 lbs thats like 0.9kg. Seriously? The smallest I have had a kid (Boer or Angora) survive was 1.6 kg. Do you have problems with kid suvival when they are that tiny? With keeping themselves warm and such? How active are they when they are born?
     
  12. SDK

    SDK New Member

    Jun 26, 2008
    Yucaipa ca
    they breed year round fairly easy

    i wait to breed mine till at least 14 months. and i try to milk for 305 days... at least for 6 months..

    i've seen some does milk for 2 years straight, but there wasn't much there

    my average kid weight is 3-5 pounds
     
  13. capriola-nd

    capriola-nd New Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    Northwest Oregon
    Yes, there are different builds and body types but they are supposed to be dairy. The goal is for them to look exactly like a large dairy goat but much smaller. :)

    Yep, can breed all-year round. Some will stop cycling in the hot summer months but not too many, in our herd anyways.

    At least 7 months old and 40 lbs. I also look at their rump width to judge if a kid could pass through safely. Most of our does grow big enough to kid as yearlings.

    Our kids are about 2-4 lbs. at birth but I've had a kid (one of quads) who couldn't have been more than a 1lb. She made it just fine through the night and is still doing great! That was a November kidding too, so it wasn't warm outside. We supply heat lamps though (very securely attached to the wall).

    I'm going to try and train my does to milk for at least 10 months.

    That would be so neat if you could get embryos shipped in. . . . sounds like it would be quite an experience! :)
     
  14. PiccoloGoat

    PiccoloGoat goat girl x0x0

    Sep 10, 2008
    Australia
    Yeah you would be the first ND owner in Australia :leap:
     
  15. hornless

    hornless New Member

    326
    Oct 5, 2007
    I would try Rosasharn and Twin Creeks. They are two of the TOP breeders in the country and have very consistent animals; they are also very experienced with AI, which would be a big help. Both of them have been in the business a long, long time, and I think they would be interested in helping you.
     
  16. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    Massachusetts
    I had a kid born at under a pound and he did fine. He was one of quints. But around 2-5 pounds has been the norm here so far.