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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Story line:
This afternoon I went to milk the girls. Everyone was waiting for me except Begonia-she was in the shed. She refused to come out. I didn't go in and get her, I was going to later. I finished milking everyone else and my bf brought her to the stand. Her bag was decent: nothing special today. Figured maybe the weather changes with the crazy mood swings of Mother Nature really affected her. She didn't eat her grain either on the stand-as us goat people know, that's a shocker! She got done and I tied her to the "waiting area" while I cleaned up. She just hung her head and stood there. Depressed looks are always a concern for me. I took her temp: 103.6'. Slightly high, but not enough to concern me. I kept her in a hospital pen, prepared her my secret concoction of oatmeal, corn syrup, molasses, baking soda mixed in warm water. She drank probably 1/2 gallon. I gave her an expensive bed, two slabs of quality 2nd crop hay. She did eat, and I watched her. Gave her 3cc vitamin b complex anyway. I left for work. All night I have been contemplating everything. I even tested her for ketosis as well, she freshened last week in February. Milk fever? No. Ketosis? No. Twisted stomach, left side? No. Right side? No. I watched her breathing. Short, but very noticeably longer between breaths than the others. Pneumonia? Temp not high enough yet. Hardware?...that's what I came up with so far.

Storyline 2:
Tonight.
We just for home. I checked her...she hardly touched her free grain, actually I think the chickens ate it, not her. Hay is nibbled, that's visible. Hasn't drank much, but has a little. Vitamin B given again. Temp taken: 104.4'. -gasp- (me: ****!). As I checked her, I glanced around for poop or pee. Took another ketone sample. Nope. One thing did stand out: her poop was clumped. Like think a calf poop, formed but mushy. Odd, very. Intriguing. Right away I think Hardware again. I pinch her spine, no give. At all, pinch under her belly, no arch. Definitely hardware I'm thinking. She then proceeded to cough/sneeze. Cloudy mucous. Me: what the hell? I check for chest rattling, sounds good and clean. I'm set on hardware.

Plan of attack:
3x/day Vitamin B complex
LA200
Magnet
Probios
Temp monitoring 3x/day.


Need reassurance. What do you think? I've dealt with TONS of pneumonia cases, and this does not sound or look like pneumonia. She is wormed recently. Healthy as a mule. My second highest FF producer. I've also dealt with TONS of hardware cases, and I have my mind set on hardware. That's the only thing that pops up! :frustrated:
 

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It stops at 'and my bf brought her to' then there's no more?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
It stops at 'and my bf brought her to' then there's no more?
Yup, on my mobile it only gives me a certain amount of lines, then it cuts me off until I edit I add the rest. Annoying.
 

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Hmm, I have no idea. Very odd. Sorry :/
 

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pueumonia does not always present with high fever..sounds like it is slowly elevating...I would treat for Pueumonia .....LA 200 will help..I prefere Tylan 200 for URI and such but since you already bagan with LA200 complete a full five day course...I would keep with the B complex for a day or two as well...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Do they have an elevated temp with "hardware", I've only heard of that with cows.
Goats do get hardware. It's not as common as cows, but we buy our hay and grain so it's always a possibility that something foreign got in. In the early stages of hardware they have a slightly higher temp, followed quickly by a sudden jump. Off feed, just nibbling basics, stinky firmish poop, depressed appearance, no movement of the back, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
pueumonia does not always present with high fever..sounds like it is slowly elevating...I would treat for Pueumonia .....LA 200 will help..I prefere Tylan 200 for URI and such but since you already bagan with LA200 complete a full five day course...I would keep with the B complex for a day or two as well...
LA200 does nothing for pneumonia in my area, I am going about treating for hardware first, as all signs point to hardware. No rattling, just one sneeze. I opened a special bale for her, it could've been dusty...I have draxxin on hand but do not want to treat her with double antibiotic. Round one, hardware. I'll keep you posted! I'm headed out to check on her right now.
 

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Prayers for your doe!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Temp: 103.2'
Bag: Half full
Spine pinch: same
No stomach ping
No sneeze/cough/rattle.

Vet was just out for reassurance: he said go ahead with the LA200 and magnet. He said if it is pneumonia it's too early in the game to really know (during that time, I'm thinking: GO ME! Lol). He said keep a temp record book and keep her on LA200 for the duration needed. Should show improvement. If not, I'll be giving her Draxxin.

Let me tell you...Magnet was a hell of a journey in and of itself. I've never had to bolus a goat magnet. Terrible experience and she now hates me!
 

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My doe Buttercup was off last week, quiet, not eating her milk time grain, she would graze a bit. Milk way down, half of what she normally gives. Poop went from clumpy to soft, I gave her probios and human(from the dollartree) calcium, and 2 different b vitamins(fortified vit b would have been equivalent but she munched the pills and I'm not a shot fan) it was a good 3 days before she was back to normal and she is just now getting back to her normal milk production. I guess she must have eaten something at pasture, I'm not sure? I had just weaned her baby a week prior. She came around(yay) hope your girl does too!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Update afternoon:

Begonia was lying down, sides puffed out. Belly looked full. When I bumped her belly to check for excess gas, full rumen, or anything unusual, the right side was sloshy. Nice. Not chewing her cud, no grain was noticeably gone, hay not touched. Water however was all gone. I stood her up and got her moving. We walked for 10 minutes. Belly did go down a little, but still gassy. Fed her a 2tsp baking soda/molasses ball, which she hated. Probios. Temp 101.4?? Stinky log poop. Pee is normal and bright from the vitamin B. Smell normal. No sugar taste. Negative ketosis.

So far:
Afternoon 6-15
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Depressed
Temp 103.6.
Suspect hardware
Vitamin B complex
Log poop

Night 6-15
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Temp 104.4
Still suspect hardware
Vitamin B complex
Bag maybe 3/4 full
Log poop

Afternoon 6-16
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Temp 103.2
Magnet. Vet out. Said hardware or early pneumonia.
LA200
Vitamin B Complex
Log poop

5pm 6-16
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Temp 101.4
Lying around, belly puffed out
Sloshy tummy on right side.
Baking soda ball, rubbed to burp.
Walked her out 10 mins.
Probios
Negative ketosis
Normal pee
Stinky log poop
 

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I think you should treat for enterotoxima...her temp is slowly decreasing, shloshy belly can indicate her rumen function is off...I suggest C D Antitoxin and Probios along with Thiamine or fortified B complex as a support ...make her some electrolytes to keep her hydtrated and Hay in front of her...offer green leaves as much as she will eat...

Homemade Electrolytes

A half gallon of hot water
2-6 Tablespoons of Unsulphured Blackstrap Molasses ( or what you have on hand or honey)
1-2 Tablespoons of Either Sea Salt, Epsom Salt, Baking Soda or Table Salt.
1 cup of Apple Cider Vinegar


Mix well and drench or let them drink it. Most of mine love this stuff unlike the electrolytes you buy..


When I looked on the back of the electrolytes bag at ingredients the main ingredients were Sugars, Sodium/salts and Potassium along with vitamin and minerals..


Molasses is a sugar with Vitamins and Minerals


Of course the salts are hopefully self explanatory..


Apple Cider Vinegar contains potassium..


This is much cheaper than those tiny bags of electrolytes and usually you have these ingredients on hand.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
I hate when you read my mind. Lol!

Through the duration of the night, I concluded with the same results as you. I actually put my order in around 8pm to pick up thiamine, CD&T (I'm out and will pick up CD antitoxin as well for her) to the vet for morning first thing.

Her buckling died from enterotoxemia and complications therefore after. I am not worried about her being dehydrated, she drinks like a race horse. I am not giving her straight water either. It's my mixture of whole oatmeal, molasses, corn syrup, baking soda, and warm water. I don't add salt, but will tonight. Essentially she has already had homemade electrolytes this whole time. I actually have that exact recipe hanging in the breeze way in my house to use in case I run out of Resorb. Got it from an old farm wife's record book. Have saved a few calves with it around here! Only thing I like to add is two raw eggs for protein.

I really wish I would've came up with this sooner.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Forgot to add, my boyfriend picked her an arm full of apple tree leaves before we left. She ate a couple, but turned away. I am also going to be making her walk when I get home. I also keep hay in front of everyone all the time, and also made an expensive bed of her favorite hay for her to nest in and nibble as well. Some hanging on the wall. Poor girl. What a journey!
 

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What is hardware? Are you meaning she ate metal? Or something totally different. I feel so lost sometimes.
 

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What is hardware? Are you meaning she ate metal? Or something totally different. I feel so lost sometimes.
Hardware disease is a common term for bovine traumatic reticuloperitonitis. It is usually caused by the ingestion of a sharp, metallic object. These pieces of metal settle in the recticulum, and can irritate or penetrate the lining. It is most common in dairy cattle, but is occasionally seen in beef cattle. It is very rarely reported in any other ruminants. It can be difficult to conclusively diagnose and it can be prevented by the oral administration of a magnet before the animal reaches the age of one

Cattle commonly swallow foreign objects, because they do not use their lips to discriminate between materials and they do not completely chew their feed before swallowing. Sharp metallic objects, such as nails, or wire, are the common initiators of hardware disease. The object travels into the rumen and is then pushed into the recticulum along with the rest of the feed.In some cases, contractions of the recticulum can push the object through part of the recticulum wall into the peritoneal cavity, where it causes severe inflammation. In rare cases, the metal object penetrates the entire wall of the recticulum and can pierce the heart sac, causing pericarditis. Compression by the uterus in late pregnancy, straining during parturition and mounting during estrus can increase the likelihood of the object penetrating the abdominal wall or the heart sac.

Diagnosis is typically based on history and clinical findings when the veterinarian examines the cow (or other ruminant). Symptoms of hardware disease vary depending on where the object penetrates. The cow exhibits an arched back, a reluctance to move and a slow, careful gait. The cow may groan when lying down, getting up, defecating and urinating The heart rate is normal or slightly elevated, and the respiration is shallow and rapid. In dairy cows, there is often a decrease in milk production. Laboratory tests are not always necessary, but increases in fibrinogen and total plasma protein often result from Hardware disease and may be diagnosed with a blood sample.Electronic metal detectors can be used, but not all heavy sharp objects will be metal and it does not distinguish between penetrating and nonpenetrating bodies. Radiographs are also used and are advantageous because the location of the metallic body can be identified.However, if the sharp object is not metallic or dense enough the radiograph is of no use. If there is inflammation in the peritoneal cavity, or the heart sac, it can be detected using an ultrasonograph

If hardware disease is suspected, a magnet should be administered orally through a tube into the rumen. Even if the animal already has one magnet, there is no harm in inserting a second. A broad-spectrum antibiotic should also be given to control infection. The cow should be confined and movement limited in the hopes that the reticulum can repair the hole. Surgery is necessary in some cases and involves rumenotomy with a physical removal of the object. In some advanced cases that don't respond to medical or surgical therapy, slaughter should be considered from an economic perspective.
 

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Hardware is uncommon in goats but in rare cases can happen...cows gobble huge mouthfuls and is not picky about whats mixed in where goats are a bit more discriminitive on what they chew..but we all have had at least one gobbler who can be a risk for hardware...but again..its not as common in goats...
 

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I hate when you read my mind. Lol!

Through the duration of the night, I concluded with the same results as you. I actually put my order in around 8pm to pick up thiamine, CD&T (I'm out and will pick up CD antitoxin as well for her) to the vet for morning first thing.

Her buckling died from enterotoxemia and complications therefore after. I am not worried about her being dehydrated, she drinks like a race horse. I am not giving her straight water either. It's my mixture of whole oatmeal, molasses, corn syrup, baking soda, and warm water. I don't add salt, but will tonight. Essentially she has already had homemade electrolytes this whole time. I actually have that exact recipe hanging in the breeze way in my house to use in case I run out of Resorb. Got it from an old farm wife's record book. Have saved a few calves with it around here! Only thing I like to add is two raw eggs for protein.

I really wish I would've came up with this sooner.
I had no idea that goats could eat eggs.
How is your girl?
 
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