Regional BoSe dosing differences?

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by NDinKY, Feb 1, 2020.

  1. NDinKY

    NDinKY Well-Known Member

    645
    Aug 3, 2019
    Kentucky
    I was wondering if BoSe dosing is pretty standardized or if it is different depending on the region. My vet told me to give 6 mL BoSe per adult goat (he knows they’re all Nigerian Dwarf as he was looking at them when he told me the dose to give) and 2 mL per goat kid. This seems way higher than most people are saying they dose, and is much higher than the labeled dosing for sheep. However, it does correlate with the selenium content in the MultiMin dose he told me (1 mL per 100# has 5 mg selenium) and that matches product labeling. My vet when we were in Mississippi was giving BoSe at 6 mL per goat as well.

    I have given the 6 mL this past spring (prior to kidding) and gave this past fall prior to breeding season. No one showed any signs of toxicity, though I know it has a narrow therapeutic index. In fact one of my does could probably use more looking at her tail. They do have free choice minerals out, as well as a selenium block that they don’t touch.

    Should I scale back my BoSe dosing pre kidding to 1 mL/40# or go with my vet’s dosage?
     
  2. ksalvagno

    ksalvagno Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    I have never heard that dosage. Maybe just your vet likes that dosage for some reason. Maybe ask him why.
     
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  3. SalteyLove

    SalteyLove Well-Known Member

    Jun 18, 2011
    New England
    I'm so glad you posted this - I never understand these differences in selenium products or other minerals. I don't have an answer but your math is true comparing it to MultiMin90 which I use twice per year. The same confusion occurs with Replamin Plus paste versus Selenium/E gel.... Replamin contains MUCH more selenium and is dosed FOUR times as often... So how can the selenium gel do a darn thing?
     
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  4. NDinKY

    NDinKY Well-Known Member

    645
    Aug 3, 2019
    Kentucky
    Saltey, have you ever had issues with your MultiMin dosing and toxicity? I used it on my bucks this year and aside from it stinging I didn’t have any issues.

    I’ll put a call in to my vet and make sure I’m not screwing something up.
     
  5. goathiker

    goathiker I'm watching you Staff Member Supporting Member

    My veterinarian had me give the 1cc per 40 lbs dose to my elderly wether monthly for the last couple years of his life and he lived to almost 16 (Saanen).
     
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  6. SalteyLove

    SalteyLove Well-Known Member

    Jun 18, 2011
    New England
    Haven't killed one yet! They get both MultiMin and Copper Bolusing. Typically twice a year.
     
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  7. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
  8. NDinKY

    NDinKY Well-Known Member

    645
    Aug 3, 2019
    Kentucky
    To follow up on this, talked to my vet and he said he doses 6 mL per adult unless they’re very small since we’re in a very deficient area and they’ll just pee out the extra.

    This is not sitting well with me as I thought BoSe was slow release and you have to be careful about overdosing. I’ve been trying to find info on the pharmacokinetics of it, but the package inserts I’m finding are no where near as extensive as they are for human drugs. I know selenium is water soluble so in theory they could pee excess out.

    I’m almost thinking of just using MultiMin instead, the labeling is concurrent with the dose my vet recommends.
     
  9. SalteyLove

    SalteyLove Well-Known Member

    Jun 18, 2011
    New England
    Interesting, yes people always write the goats will pee out extra B vitamins but never heard that about Selenium. However, I do value local knowledge and know there are a lot of very deficient goats out there. I don't know if the selenium in Bo-Se is a different form than in MultiMin but I think the MultiMin has less Vitamin E to aid absorption? I'll have to look at the labels again.

    Not selenium, but copper:
    I just bought a bag of the newer formula of Purina goat minerals that changed to more useable chelated minerals and significantly increase copper levels. But then I realized I had just given every goat 8 grams copper bolus and a 1.2mL MultiMin dosage so was a little hesitant about offering the new loose mineral. They aren't hitting the Purina minerals hard at all and I decided to leave them out because I general I think most herds are living on the brink of deficiency and we are supplementing just enough to get by!
     
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  10. NDinKY

    NDinKY Well-Known Member

    645
    Aug 3, 2019
    Kentucky
    I’d not heard that about BoSe either. I was under the impression it was a slow release.

    You’re probably right about the brink of deficiency, but it still makes me nervous that I’ll overdose them.

    My one buck that I’ve had for three years now is still copper deficient even though I feel like I’m bolusing him every time I turn around (not really, I do at least a month in between, but I can’t seem to get him caught up). It’s my fault as I didn’t know about copper bolusing until last spring, and looking back he’s been deficient for a long time. His tail is still bald at the tip, so I keep re-evaluating every month before giving more. I only give 4 g at a time since they’re NDs

    I also have a doe that seems to have a perpetual selenium tail. She was down in her pasterns late summer so I gave her BoSe. Pasterns corrected but her tail is still crooked. She’s due to kid March 23rd and tail was looking droopier so I gave her 3 mL BoSe (equivalent selenium to the MultiMin dose) a couple of weeks ago in case she is really deficient. I plan on dosing her again 3 weeks prior to kidding.
     
  11. ksalvagno

    ksalvagno Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    If you consider your vet to be a good goat vet, you may want to do his dosing. He would know your specific area. There is the general dose of 1cc per 40 lbs but you do have to take into consideration a local vet who understands the amount of deficiency in your area. Most of the time people are begging their vet for BoSe and the vet won't give it.
     
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  12. NDinKY

    NDinKY Well-Known Member

    645
    Aug 3, 2019
    Kentucky
    I’m not sure if he is a good goat vet or not, I don’t think I’m experienced enough to make that call. I’ve liked him so far, he does farm calls, and has always been accessible. Fortunately I haven’t had to use him for anything but routine herd checks and setting a broken leg on a doeling (which healed beautifully). He is also the only game in town for farm animals in my area. I’ve been giving the 6 mL dose since last fall and haven’t had issues, so maybe I’ll stick with it. I’m just afraid of overdosing.
     
  13. CBPitts

    CBPitts Well-Known Member

    309
    Jan 28, 2020
    Oregon
    I don’t use the crooked tail as much as other signs. I’ve had several goats that just have crooked tails. Olive is the worst and she was born with a crooked tail. If the tail is the only sign and everything else looks good I wouldn’t treat. I think we need to look at each animal as a whole, then the herd as a whole, not just a single sign.
    For example, I got a new load of straw and my goats ended up with a bad lice infestation. Couple that with the biting nat things that our mild winter hasn’t killed off and we have some rough coats. The goats are scratching like crazy and their coats look terrible. Alone, that may look like copper deficiency. Look at the group though and there’s no fish tails, they have strong color with no bleaching effect, no facial hair loss. Plus I know I bolus every 3 to 4 months. All that makes me look for lice not copper.