Rejected newborns

Discussion in 'Goat Management' started by Coolbreeze89, Jan 30, 2018.

  1. Coolbreeze89

    Coolbreeze89 Active Member

    160
    Mar 5, 2017
    I’m new to goats in the last month - just got 7 NGD does, all 8-11 weeks now. I’ve been reading threads here EXTENSIVELY for the last couple months to learn as much as I can. My NGDs are doing well and thriving now. A neighbor called yesterday and asked if I could take two orphaned “mostly Nubians” that their grandparents found on their farm and can’t take care of. Best guess on history: born three days ago, abandoned by young mother and found in field. Lived in grandparents’ house eating cow milk out of pan. Unknown colostrum. The boy was found several hours before the girl, and he looks stronger. Boy: has taken 3-4 oz whole milk (heated to 100-103) three times in the last 14 hours. Good suck. Peeing frequently, Active and talkative. I have not seen any stool yet, but stomach isn’t bloated. Girl: much smaller, wobblier but walks around indoor pen (back legs NOT more wobbly than front, so I don’t think WKS?). Pees just as often as brother. Eats but less aggressive/effective suck than brother. Has taken 2.5-3oz three times. She stooled a little this morning, sticky orangey paste. I briefly thought there might have been a tinge of blood, but I think it was just liquid around stool. Temps 101-102 on both (they have a heater on one side of pen, but don’t seem to be preferring that).

    Questions:
    1. I have probiotic power powder - 2.5g per goat per day in bottle, per container dosing instruction. Correct?
    2. Adding corn syrup or molasses to bottles? Amount/frequency of either? I’m thinking the girl could use a little energy boost.
    3. Selenium/vit E gel? Should I give? How much?
    4. I have probiotic gel from TSC, but I didn’t give as they were 48+ hrs old when I got them. Correct?
    5.Is baby mylicon ok to give? They sound rumbly... (I am used to human babies, so maybe this is normal).
    6. Cords dry, look clean. I doubt ever iodined. I’ll watch for signs of infection, but anything to do now?
    7. Any other bits of wisdom/suggestions?

    Thank you all so much! I do love goats already!! My plan for 3-5 has clearly followed typical “goat math”.....
     
  2. ksalvagno

    ksalvagno Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Put a pinch of baking soda in the first bottle of the day. Give a pea size amount of selenium gel. Give them a B complex shot.
     

  3. SalteyLove

    SalteyLove Well-Known Member

    Jun 18, 2011
    New England
    Do you have fortified B-complex?

    I would give the doeling both selenium and b-complex.

    I would not give Mylicon, corn syrup, or anything else except the bottled milk for now since they are eating well. If the boy doesn't poop later today we can talk you through a simple enema.
     
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  4. Deborah Haney

    Deborah Haney Well-Known Member

    289
    Jul 11, 2017
    Congrats on your new goats!

    0. They should probably get colostrum, you can get colostrum replacer at most feed stores or use frozen colostrum.

    1. That is the correct dose for probiotics, I'm pretty sure you can't overdose them on the stuff so don't worry about 0.1g here or there.

    2. The colostrum replacer and whole cows milk should have everything they need. Giving extra sugar is more likely to just upset their tummies and give them diarrhea .

    3. They probably could use the selenium vit E gel. The instructions should be on the package in per pound format. Note: I have limited experience with this. Someone else can give more info.

    4. The powder should be sufficient but if it doesn't specifically say on the tube it's only for kids <2 days old, it probably wouldn't hurt.

    5. I don't know what that is so I can't be of help here BUT you should know that their rumens aren't really doing anything right now so don't be surprised if you don't hear rumen sounds (a gurgle on his left side a couple times a minute)

    6. A little iodine wouldn't hurt but it probably won't help either. If they're going to get an infection, the bacteria probably already got in shortly after birth so definitely watch for infection and have antibiotics ready or have a vet on speed dial to get a quick exam and any prescription meds that would help.

    7. Weigh them in oz and try to get them to take 10% of their body weight in colostrum at first, then milk, every day. Split it into 4 feedings, then 3 after a couple weeks. This also helps you track their weight and make sure they're digesting their food properly.

    Don't make any sudden diet changes (except getting colostrum into them as soon as possible), go gradually to avoid upsetting their tummies.

    The doeling's orange stool concerns me quite a bit as orange stool usually does mean a little blood mixed in. Keep an eye on her stool and if it gets worse or stays the same, consider coccidiostats or contact a vet. My bottle baby had orange stool, then diarrhea, not a lot of stool, then was diagnosed with cryptosporidia. If either kid has scours, give some pedialyte.

    Good luck with all your babies!
     
    Goat_Scout likes this.
  5. ksalvagno

    ksalvagno Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    If it is past 24 hours, colostrum will do no good. I would not get a replacer and take a chance on it giving them diarrhea. The orange stool doesn't concern me. Getting them to drink their bottles will probably clear that right up.
     
  6. Coolbreeze89

    Coolbreeze89 Active Member

    160
    Mar 5, 2017
    Thank you all. I’ll start the probiotic and daily pinch of baking soda. Later today, will do the selenium. I’ll have to go pick up fortified B complex, but will get that ASAP.

    I’ll watch the stools. I read an older post about “butterscotch stool” being normal for babies? That is probably a good approximation for what her stool looked like. Hopefully he’ll stool soon. If not, 3cc lightly-soapy warm water enema this evening (sooner if his tummy swells).
     
  7. mariarose

    mariarose Well-Known Member

    You are a good person. I can't add anything here over this excellent advice and what you yourself have already known to do. I agree it is too late to give colostrum. They may well have gotten some before the mom left them. I have seen that happen. The stool sounds normal to me. Since they have no mom to clean them, you'll have to, because it can glue stuff shut back there. Cleaning them will also increase the urge to suckle. OK, I added one more thing, which you would have figured out without me.
     
  8. mariarose

    mariarose Well-Known Member

    One more thing. In the Articles tab here on TGS, there is a terrific piece on digestive development in kids. I highly recommend that.
     
    Coolbreeze89 likes this.
  9. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
  10. Deborah Haney

    Deborah Haney Well-Known Member

    289
    Jul 11, 2017
    I didn't know that about the colostrum, I thought it was 2 days - 1 week that moms made colostrum.

    It's normal for a couple weeks but if it continues past that or if there's obvious blood in the stool, something's wrong.
     
  11. Coolbreeze89

    Coolbreeze89 Active Member

    160
    Mar 5, 2017
    Ok, so the boy still hasn’t stooled that I’ve seen, but has eaten 4.5-5 oz, three times today, peeing, active. I got rid of bedding and am keeping them on puppy pads so I can see poo.

    The girl is doing less well: took 3.5oz first thing this morning, but then 1 oz, and just now 1.5+ oz. She is peeing, but she definitely had bloody mucus in the last two stools, and she seems to be straining. She had three beautiful yellow stools earlier today. Her suck is still not great, and her energy level not like brother’s. I would call her “puny” - she walks around a little, but likes to fall asleep when you hold her. She looks around, but just nowhere near as vigorous as brother. I did give them both warm baths this morning (they were FILTHY), but I had space heater going in my laundry room, plus hair dryer to dry them off. They did not get cold, but I’m sure it wore them out, as they took a long nap afterwards.

    Thoughts on blood in stool? TIA
     
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  12. mariarose

    mariarose Well-Known Member

    Colostrum is right away, at most a day and a half, but then for a week or two after that it is what I so scientifically call "Newborn Milk" which is different from the colostrum but definitely has a difference from what I so scientifically call "More Mature Milk"

    I love science...
     
  13. mariarose

    mariarose Well-Known Member

    While you are waiting for better advice than I can give, here is what I can give.

    Keep her warm (you already know that)
    Don't give her any more liquid milk.
    Give her some active culture plain yoghurt.

    At this point I'm worried about Overeater's Disease.
     
  14. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Good advice.

    What is the temp on the kids?

    If no poo, give an enema right away.
    Blood isn't good, but could be from straining to poo.
     
    mariarose likes this.
  15. Deborah Haney

    Deborah Haney Well-Known Member

    289
    Jul 11, 2017
    If the girl weighs 3 pounds, 6oz in a day is alright, but I would think a Nubian kid, even a newborn, would be a bit heavier. Babies do sleep a lot but if she is much less active than another kid her age, it may be an issue. You could try a little slippery elm bark for the bloody stool. You can find it at places like whole foods or super supplements. It's supposed to sooth tummies and intestines but I can't really speak to its efficacy.

    I'm hoping the others can be of more help. I've only had one bottle baby.
     
    mariarose likes this.
  16. Coolbreeze89

    Coolbreeze89 Active Member

    160
    Mar 5, 2017
    Update: 3 hr nap after first dose of goat power probiotic (and upping temp in their room): girl ate 6 oz! She wanted more, but I stopped her there. Brother ate 5.5oz too.

    TOTH BOER: I haven’t retaken temp since so vigorous after nap. Just to clarify: I haven’t seen the boy poo (though he had some dried poop on his rear just now, so I’m guessing one of the little bits is his). He is eating, peeing, not bloated, and active/happy. Would you still enema if I don’t see him go?(I only see little bits of poo on the puppy pads). Re the girl: she definitely ate better and was vigorous, but had blood-tinged mucus on her rear, and passed a little more while eating. Still possibly consistent with her straining? She does seem to push to get the mucus out. No increase in volume of blood today. Thank you!
     
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  17. Coolbreeze89

    Coolbreeze89 Active Member

    160
    Mar 5, 2017
    I’m a newbie, but I almost question if these are really littermates! He seems stronger, more alert, and definitely bigger/more stable. I suppose a few hours cold in the field would make a big impact, and she’s probably a runt. I’d put her about three pounds (I need to get a baby scale - my adult person scale barely notices a change if I hold the goat or not).

    I just posted an update - she had a really vigorous, enthusiastic meal just now! I’m hopeful! (Fingers crossed!)
     
    mariarose likes this.
  18. Coolbreeze89

    Coolbreeze89 Active Member

    160
    Mar 5, 2017
    Thank you for your kind words! I so want to do right by these little ones. Steep learning curve, but thank heavens for all of you at TGS!
     
    Kath G. likes this.
  19. Kath G.

    Kath G. Well-Known Member

    623
    Jul 13, 2017
    Wisconsin
    A huge difference between littermates out of the same doe isn't terribly uncommon. It could be as simple as that they're fathered by two different bucks (if does & bucks are running together I believe this is common; even with hand breeding it's been known to happen!).

    You did a good thing by stopping the little doeling at 6 oz. A luggage scale, particularly with backlighting, is a good investment (~$10), it takes the guesswork out of weighing little ones.

    You're doing a fantastic job; they're very lucky you took them in!
     
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  20. Coolbreeze89

    Coolbreeze89 Active Member

    160
    Mar 5, 2017
    I have a luggage scale, but would never have thought to use it! Great idea, thanks!
     
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