Relatively new to goats - manure questions

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by FMW, Jun 30, 2020.

  1. FMW

    FMW New Member

    9
    Jun 30, 2020
    61722
    We've had goats for almost two years. We have registered Nubians and will be introducing a small ND buckling this week.

    I have become so obsessed about their manure. I have two adult does, one in milk and the other dry. The dry doe had soft, clumpy manure about 1.5 months ago and I brought her to the vet. He is an expert in goats and owns at least 30 Nubians himself. He didn't want to do a fecal. He looked at the manure she "released" on his stanchion and determined it was "x" worms. I don't even remember which kind. Her eye lids apparantly were also fine. He told me Safeguard for three days at 8cc per day. I did that and she seemed to clear up pretty quickly. She was back to having goat berry-type manure, after having this soft, log-like manure for a few weeks. Even though she was having goat berry-type manure, she also was having intermittent clumpy manure and even soft, log-like type manure. As a side note, while I was giving the dry doe Safeguard, she simultaneously was getting Molly's herbal Formula 1 balls those three days.

    Today, the intermittent clumpy, soft, log-like manure is consistent and I haven't witnessed any goat berries in at least 1-2 weeks.

    The other doe, who is in milk, has mainly had goat berries, but recently has had more clumping to her manure.

    We move them with a mobile goat structure every 5-7 days. They also get green hay daily, which they gobble down. There is plenty of weeds and pasture, but they just love this hay. It's green grass and alfalfa. I also give them a total of 8 cups of organic alfalfa pellets, 1/2 cup of diaomaceous earth, and almost a cup of BOSS. The two does and two kids (11 weeks old) share this, although, it's mostly eaten by the two adult does.

    They also have free choice New Country Organics with Copper mineral, baking soda, and kelp. They don't touch the kelp much, but they definitely take in the b. soda and mineral.

    I don't know if it's something I'm feeding them, or am I over feeding them? The doe in milk has been with us since March and then gave birth in April on our property. The dry goat has been with us for almost two years and has had a history of mixed manure (goat berries and soft, log-type) for a long time.

    My inexperienced mind thinks that we move them enough and can't believe they could have a high load of worms, especially the dry one who seemed to have turned around immediately after Safeguard.

    Also, their coats look shiny and they both look great. Their eyelids are checked almost daily and, although I don't have a FAMACHA card, they look pinkish, sometimes light and sometimes medium. We check the kid goats as well and they are dark pink. Their manure looks totally normal (goat berries), but they also nurse a lot and mostly eat the pasture and hay.

    Last thing, when the goat, who is in milk, had given birth, we did not worm her. Instead, we gave her worm balls for seven days per recommendation from a friend with goats. I'm kicking myself that I had not wormed her with Safeguard or something.

    What do you guys think about the manure and what I'm feeding them. We are learning A LOT and we (mostly ME) love these goats. I think about them a lot and want to take such good care of them.
     
  2. FMW

    FMW New Member

    9
    Jun 30, 2020
    61722
    Wanted to clarify that although the dry doe had shown recovery after having the Safeguard, she continued to have intermittent soft manure that was log-like.
     

  3. ksalvagno

    ksalvagno Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    I'd start with a fecal to include coccidia on both.
     
  4. Goats Rock

    Goats Rock Member

    Jun 20, 2011
    NE Ohio
    You may be feeding too many sunflower seeds. The oil in the seeds may cause loose stools and too much will possibly coat the intestines preventing nutrients to get thru.
     
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  5. MuldrowBeeandGoatFarm

    MuldrowBeeandGoatFarm Well-Known Member

    304
    Oct 24, 2019
    Texas
    Honestly, I would learn to do my own fecals and make sure that you do not rely strictly on the vet. Expert or not, your goats are not his and he is not with your herd. You will learn what is off and what is normal by being with them. Trust your guts. If something looks odd, investigate. Also, don't take anyone's word that things are normal. Having learned what the FAMACHA is and why it is used is the best thing you can do! You don't need the chart but I do recommend using the 1-5 chart each time you look so you know how they are fairing. When the vet says it is ok, you look to determine if you agree and ASK why or what! Doing your own fecals is super easy. Someone who lives close to me on here actually taught me. Not only does it save you money but it teaches you to watch and learn so you can act fast when needed!
     
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  6. MadCatX

    MadCatX Well-Known Member

    Jan 16, 2018
    GA
    Also, not to be the devil's advocate. I trip out everytime my goat's feces changes. I have two goats that are pets. So, becareful not to worry yourself to death. Do the steps noted here, but also think. Has their diet changed? Did they eat alot of wet, clumpy grass/hay?
    Example: Clyde - FAMACHA = Good. Went to having Scours.
    I freaked out thought the worst, came here made a post. Nearly Freaked.
    Read some questions here, and started back tracking.
    Clyde got into about a whole head of Cabbage. Turns out, Cabbage and some goats dont jeehaw. So I hit him with Probios, Diet change for a week, doubled his garlic, and added probios snacks vs his medicated or chips. Scours cleared, hes back to berry mode.

    1. Fecals - online services 8-10 bucks
    2. Diet
    3. Medicine becareful not to over medicate..or MEDICATE for the WRONG bugs.

    Im not a pro, or even what I call an experienced owner. Just some tips
     
  7. MellonFriend

    MellonFriend Well-Known Member

    I too would really recommend doing your own fecals. Here's the video I learned off of. It goes through the whole process including parasite ID. To truly rule our parasites would be a good idea.

    I dealt with clumpy poops this spring. I did a three day super doses of herbs, meaning I dosed them twice a day morning and evening for three days. Two cloves of garlic a day and probiotic. This worked for me. Now, I use Land of Havilah herbs so I don't know if that is an okay thing to do with Molly's.

    I agree that the amount of BOSS you are feeding could be too much.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020 at 1:25 PM
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  8. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
  9. NigerianDwarfOwner707

    NigerianDwarfOwner707 Well-Known Member

    May 17, 2018
    East Coast, USA
    It’s very simple, start with a fecal test for everyone.
     
  10. FMW

    FMW New Member

    9
    Jun 30, 2020
    61722
    MADCATX - I feel like I'm obsessed with it! I want normal manure for them. It will make me feel so much better.
     
  11. FMW

    FMW New Member

    9
    Jun 30, 2020
    61722
    So today, I noticed on four occasions that my dry doe had NORMAL manure. Nice goat berries. I was so happy!!! I have not yet seen the other doe's manure. I waited twice today for almost an hour, and nothing!

    I did change something in their diet, I removed BOSS. Thanks to those who suggested that I may be giving them too much of that. I took it out and my dry doe had normal poop!!
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2020 at 10:46 PM
  12. FMW

    FMW New Member

    9
    Jun 30, 2020
    61722
    I am interested in purchasing a microscope. It would be great if it could serve as a microscope for high school students as well. Any suggestions would be great!
     
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  13. lottsagoats1

    lottsagoats1 Well-Known Member

    Apr 12, 2014
    Middle Maine
    A goat should not have more than 5-6% fat in their diet each day. That amount of BOSS is really pushing it over that % by quite a bit. As mentioned, that causes soft to loose feces and can kill the beneficial bacteria in in the gut and let the bad multiply rapidly. I feed BOSS to thinnish goats, but only in small amounts for short periods of time.
     
  14. GoofyGoat

    GoofyGoat Well-Known Member

    Sep 21, 2018
    TEXAS
    Welcome to TGS!
    I would not leave baking soda out full time and only offer it for gastric distress,or bloat.
    Goats make their own and adding it to the diet prevents them from doing this and can cause problems down the road.

    Here's a link to very good microscopes for high school students and all the supplies you'll need

    https://www.homesciencetools.com/microscopes/student-microscopes/

    I taught science for years as well as homeschooled through high school and loved this company! They have great customer service and high quality products.

    Here's the video I like for learning to do fecals too



    Hope this helps :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2020 at 5:45 AM
  15. MellonFriend

    MellonFriend Well-Known Member

    Moers kiko boars and Iluvlilly! like this.
  16. FMW

    FMW New Member

    9
    Jun 30, 2020
    61722
    So, we did a fecal check on our lactating goat. Her manure was still soft. The person who did it counted a total of 20 barber pole eggs. So this morning we decided to give her safeguard and placed her in a dry pen by herself, which she can't stand. In a matter of hours, her manure was goat berries. Does it work that fast! The doctor suggested three days at 8cc per day.

    Also, we will move her out on Wednesday back with the other doe. She just turned 3 and I believe has been dewormed twice before. It's been almost 1.5 years since the last time.
     
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  17. FMW

    FMW New Member

    9
    Jun 30, 2020
    61722
    I am hoping to purchase a microscope tonight. I absolutely NEED to learn to do fecals. Also, when I checked her eyelids after counting the eggs, her eye lids are definitely pink. I will check them again tomorrow morning to see how dark they are.
     
    Moers kiko boars likes this.
  18. MadCatX

    MadCatX Well-Known Member

    Jan 16, 2018
    GA
    There is a ton of good information on this post, with great links.
    I have some space that a train set occupys in my shed, I am now having ideas on how I want to configure it.
     
  19. Moers kiko boars

    Moers kiko boars Well-Known Member

    Apr 22, 2018
    Oklahoma
    I looked at the high school microscopes. I found the same one on Amazon for about $80 less. Hope yuo can find what you need!