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Requesting opinions on June/July kidding in Northern Indiana?

2K views 34 replies 16 participants last post by  Trollmor 
#1 ·
Have been breeding the past 4 years in the "normal time" to have kids on the ground late December through early March...Blood test results are back and 2 does we thought were settled are actually open...
Trying to weigh the Pro's vs Con's of re-breeding...& possibly even flushing one of the 2...to have babies on the ground in the Summer...Thoughts??
 
#3 ·
I love kidding this time of the year! On our farm we kid from the end of July-early September. Last year however everyone kidded from July 28th-August 12th. Be sure to make sure your does don't overheat. We do hanging fans and giant blower fans. One way to control flies when you kid this time of the year is to use the milk jug method. We use these:

Yellow Font Tool Poster Illustration
They work great at capturing the flies. If you have anymore questions just PM me.
 
#4 ·
I prefer winter kids. They grow way better than warmer weather kids. They eat better because of the cold, and the incidence of heavy worm and cocci loads is way less in my frigid state. (I live in Maine). Kids born in late spring and summer are easier to care for when newborns because you don't have to worry about them freezing to death, but I hate dealing with the flies, heavy parasite loads and heat.

However, I have a couple of does that have not settled, one because she keeps coming back in heat (and she's my 2+ gallon a day milker, of course) and the other because she is refusing to come in to a blatant heat and will be thrown in with a buck for a month, soon. She will end up having a summer kid. Sigh.
 
#5 ·
I so wish it wasn't true, but in my experience the winter kids seriously do grow better. To me, it just doesn't make sense, if you keep up on parasite prevention the spring/summer kids should be equivalent to winter kids, but they just aren't!

I aim for my herd to kid in March which is "late" for many breeders but I just refuse to do it Jan and February. April & May kids just don't seem to be as thrifty on our farm which is crazy.
 
#6 ·
I so wish it wasn't true, but in my experience the winter kids seriously do grow better. To me, it just doesn't make sense, if you keep up on parasite prevention the spring/summer kids should be equivalent to winter kids, but they just aren't!

I aim for my herd to kid in March which is "late" for many breeders but I just refuse to do it Jan and February. April & May kids just don't seem to be as thrifty on our farm which is crazy.
That's what I'm afraid of...we have great growth rates/success with or Winter kids...I just hate to have these open does...
 
#10 ·
I agree that kids do grow so much better in the winter. I actually just went back and was looking at pictures of my kids over the years and winter kids were so much better.
I do a lot of thinking lol how to do things different/ better. One of the things I thought about was splitting my does up, and also breeding my doelings at a year instead of to kid at 2. Now this may not effect you, but for me it was pen space. I wouldn’t want does with kids on them bred and really don’t want them with weaning kids so that would be another pen I would need for them. It sounded good till I really thought about my set up and there is no way it would work. I also just don’t see any way with the doelings if I could swing it to get on track with the others unless I bred them right back or I waited a year to breed them, which would put me back to where I’m at so why breed them? Again your set up and management may be totally different then mine but think about pens first.
There are pros though. 1. Of course you wouldn’t have to wait another year to breed them. 2. You would have another time of income. And 3. Because most people kid in the winter you don’t have as much competition if selling privately. If for meat that means you could sell them in September as weaners and that’s usually when the market picks back up. You just need to decide if it’s worth it or not
 
#11 ·
I agree that kids do grow so much better in the winter. I actually just went back and was looking at pictures of my kids over the years and winter kids were so much better.
I do a lot of thinking lol how to do things different/ better. One of the things I thought about was splitting my does up, and also breeding my doelings at a year instead of to kid at 2. Now this may not effect you, but for me it was pen space. I wouldn't want does with kids on them bred and really don't want them with weaning kids so that would be another pen I would need for them. It sounded good till I really thought about my set up and there is no way it would work. I also just don't see any way with the doelings if I could swing it to get on track with the others unless I bred them right back or I waited a year to breed them, which would put me back to where I'm at so why breed them? Again your set up and management may be totally different then mine but think about pens first.
There are pros though. 1. Of course you wouldn't have to wait another year to breed them. 2. You would have another time of income. And 3. Because most people kid in the winter you don't have as much competition if selling privately. If for meat that means you could sell them in September as weaners and that's usually when the market picks back up. You just need to decide if it's worth it or not
Excellent points, thank you!
 
#13 ·
This is something i have thought about, Where i live we do not see rain for the entire summer sometimes its about 3 months. THe winters here have lots of rain and everything is wet. I am more inclined to get the goats pregnant so they have kids in the warmer(march-April) months when its more dry than right now where its wet everywhere. It hardly freezes here so i am sure parasites are higher right now than when its too dry for them to live in the summer.
Just my two cents
 
#14 ·
Did the hot weather kidding, it was horrible.
Flies were all over the newborns nose, all over them and mama. It was really hard on all of them.

Mama late term with being heavy preggo was panting and so tired, with the heat and the kids didn't grow as good.
So I told myself I would never go that route again.
 
#15 ·
I try not to have kids after May. I feel so bad for late term does being so miserable in the heat, and kids just don’t seem to be quite up to their age in terms of growth and vigor. The linear appraiser told me this year, about a June born doe of mine, that summer kids really don’t seem to bloom(in terms of conformation and size) until 3-4 years, vs. most other does starting to look really nice at 2 years.
 
#18 ·
You must consider the local conditions. Here, the daylight length control very much. The does go into heat when days go shorter in October, which gives delivery in March, and so the babies benefit from the summer's rich grass and rich daylight, which latter stimulates the production of growth hormones.

Dwarf goats are known to be rather independent of daylight for going to heat, but the babies still need the growth hormones and the rich grass growth.
 
#19 ·
I breed year round. I raise for commercial though. I actually like summer births more (again, I am the total weird one.) Hubby used to work pest control so we are have gotten into a system for keeping flies and pest away. This last year with moving though means that we are going to have to refigure everything. I have 16 girls getting bred starting today. Then in 3mo I will have another group going.
 
#20 ·
I'm sorry the girls didn't take. I agree, I am not a fan of summer kids. I prefer Jan-Mar, although we just had Dec kids and I'm liking that time frame even though it's hectic with the holidays. I'd like to try for Nov/Dec this year for some if we can.

I think the purpose of the kids will be a big part of it. For show? if yes, for breeding or market? if not, then it probably wouldn't matter. However, they wouldn't grow as well as fall/winter kids.
If you bred them for summer kids, you'd really be doing back to back breeding's to get them onto a winter schedule, and that can be hard on them.
 
#22 ·
Did December kids too.
Was too hard as mentioned.
Holiday season, you have to stay close to home.
It is really cold.
You have no spring grasses for them to thrive on.
Which usually helps jump start them to graze and get that rumen kicked in.

I do Feb babies but, I may go March, April sometime. :)
 
#23 ·
Yes!!! November/ December would be my absolute perfect time for kidding!! (For me!) even October to December. It’s not overly cold when they are born but it cools off enough they want to eat well so they grow well. I either can’t get mine to cycle for that time or I get so busy shipping cows to the mountains that I don’t have the time. But back in the day (eye roll) I used to have kids all year long. Fall kidding so far has been my all around favorite. The other seasons there seems to be pros with cons. Summer of course you don’t have to worry about frozen kids, but as lots mentioned they don’t grow well and it is so HOT I suffer having to chase down kids for vaccines and what not. Spring, again no frozen kids lol but when I was breeding for March/ April kids that put them at June July to sell (I wean by selling) and having to catch kids and stand in the heat while people decide what they want makes me more grumpy then I should be or having to load them and take to the sale, it’s just terribly hot! Lol winter, I HATE being cold more then hot! It doesn’t get overly cold here but still cold enough that a baby could easily get cold and die if I don’t have the doe stalled up. But they grow well, they are gone before it’s hot and things get busy here. And most of all January/February kids are perfect for my kids and their market wethers. BUT in a perfect world I would do fall kids hands down lol
 
#24 ·
Jessica - We only breed about 6 does a year, they are all spoiled - know their names, come when they are called, and kids are usually spoiled so no need in chasing them, they are usually chasing you and leaving lovely muddy footprints all over you lol. However, if we had a big herd, I know that would be very hard to do, and definitely understand your reasons for not wanting hot weather kids just for the purpose of trying to catch them, and during selling time alone, not to mention bugs/flies, and everything in between.
Our next does are due mid March and first of Apr. and the issue will be for us, if my kids were to show any of the babies, it is really going to be tough because they would be weaned right around the start of show season! :( First show here is usually about the 2nd week in June.
Last year we left our Feb/Mar girls on their mama's longer and IMO I felt they didn't grow as well. As soon as we weaned and got them used to being away from mom, they started picking up and growing much better - where I thought they should be.
So I definitely like avoiding summer as much as I can for things like kidding/weaning. Show season last year was stressful enough.
We thought all 6 of our does were bred in the same week, when we saw no signs of heat again, we sold the buck. Well 4 got pregnant, 1 slipped her pregnancy 2 months in (not sure why, she was healthy/happy), 2 came in heat in Oct! Ugh. So those 3 are now kidding in Mar/Apr. But the fun part is they are bred to 2 different bucks, something we've never done before.
But again...weaning will be tough if any are going to be shown.
 
#25 ·
You know what though showing at the time of weaning MIGHT work out ok......maybe. I know with our fair there is hardly any 0-3 month kids that are entered so could be a easy win lol but I do understand the stress factor :( I think if I were in your kids shoes I would just make sure they are UTD on vaccines and maybe look into some kind of immune support
 
#26 ·
Chasing? If having a big herd and the goats not tame enough to come when you show them the tasty-food, I suggest you construct a funnel with a sorting gate! (Can be combined with an enclosure with tasty-food, you can get them accustomed to running in there daily, if you want to make the selling procedure easier.) The reindeer owning sames usually have a horizontal gate, that the mothers jump over while the calfs go under, and so they get the calfs in an enclosure by themselves in one go.

If you want to use all the space when not sorting, make some gates to leave open.
 
#27 ·
Yes in a perfect world where money wasn't needed to make things lol
I did though recently make a small pen (snot super small but manageable size for my herd) that V's into my "barn." I mainly did this so I could lock the goats in it at night and not have to walk 5 acres on my night checks of pregos but this should come in handy with catching kids as well. We shall see.
I'm not sure if the funneling system would work for mine anyways because I don't feed my adults grain and I don't see them going threw anything like that with just hay as a motivator.
 
#29 ·
Does anyone kid in the September/October time frame? Then sell in about February maybe?

I sell commercial for meat. Was thinking about dividing mine up so some kid in fall to lessen the load in spring.
I do. I had more doelings than bucklings this Sept so I dont have many bucklings to sell this year. Even though it means more stress with kidding more often, I love kidding multiple times a year. I only have so many pens, so I can't breed all my does at once. I have a lot of dominate does that dislike others and are very protective of their kids so I keep mine apart til I wean.

I understand the pain of trying to catch untamed goats. I have a couple in my herd also. I actually have one of my hay feeders positioned so that with 1 other person I can funnel them into a holding cage. It also helps to grab 1 or 2 of the tamer ones and put them in the cage area as bait for the others to run over by.
 
#30 ·
I kid in March/April, and will probably just stick with that. I've had a couple does kid in the summer, when I was figuring out what I wanted to do, and it had a couple perks but also it's cons.

First it was really nice not having to worry about the cold, the kids were born running it seemed. I let a couple of them have their kids in the pasture and sunshine, and would then bring them back home to be locked with mama a couple days which seems much nicer than being born a popsicle.

But the mamas always wanted to be out in the pasture with the rest of the herd eating the nice green grass, but had little little babies who get lost or can't make the long hike out to the pasture. So often times I would come home to find a very sad baby still in the barn and mama way out in the pasture. (escaped) Or when I finally started letting them go out in the pasture, find a lost little baby out there by themselves, with an upset mama running around the barn checking every kid to see if it was hers.

The kids always just seemed to be small and never really grew as well as the others. Flies? idk

Also worth mentioning, at that point I already had "kidding season" in March and was so over the whole process when it came to those couple having theirs in the summer. Summer time for me, with the goats, is a lot more hands off. Other than bringing them in for vaccinations, spot worming, etc., they don't get a lot of handling and are out on pasture for feed (other than the kid's creep feeders).

After a winter of twice daily feedings, and a month of 24/7 on call care, I'm ready for a break in the summer to keep my sanity. But it totally all depends on what the purpose of your herd is, with dairy it often does make sense to have kids whenever it works out. Mine are mainly for meat.
 
#32 ·
For untame goats, (usually the kids) I have a decent sized catch pen. My older does know what a bucket is and come running as soon as they hear me shaking it (BOSS sunflower treats usually). So I go into the catch pen, pour a couple spots of seeds on the ground, leave the bucket, and move to the back of the herd to start shooing the rest in. Works better with two people, but I've managed by myself and there's 40+ of them.

For actually catching them, the pen is pretty crowded so it's easy to wade into the crowd and grab who you need.

Also for christmas my wife got me a shepards hook cane, which surprisingly does work very well, I tested it out last week when we did yearly boosters. Most of our does know the drill though and just walk up to the gate and wait, with the air of "lets get this over with". So I didn't have to really use it until the last few shy ones.
 
#34 ·
For untame goats, (usually the kids) I have a decent sized catch pen. My older does know what a bucket is and come running as soon as they hear me shaking it (BOSS sunflower treats usually). So I go into the catch pen, pour a couple spots of seeds on the ground, leave the bucket, and move to the back of the herd to start shooing the rest in. Works better with two people, but I've managed by myself and there's 40+ of them.

For actually catching them, the pen is pretty crowded so it's easy to wade into the crowd and grab who you need.

Also for christmas my wife got me a shepards hook cane, which surprisingly does work very well, I tested it out last week when we did yearly boosters. Most of our does know the drill though and just walk up to the gate and wait, with the air of "lets get this over with". So I didn't have to really use it until the last few shy ones.
I was thinking about getting a shepherd's crook. Is it really useful?
 
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