Retained kid, post removal care

Discussion in 'Kidding Koral' started by Hofman, Apr 20, 2018.

  1. Hofman

    Hofman New Member

    8
    Mar 4, 2017
    Hi, a long, long night...My queen and the sweetest goat I will ever meet had trouble with her kidding. Her pins disappeared and her mucus plug showed up at 8 pm last night. By 10 pm we had a bubble. She wasn't contracting hard or regularly so I let her wait. No distress as she progressed but it took 2 hours for baby 1 who was tiny. Mom and dad are Nigerians but dad is remarkably small his other kids have also been tiny. Kid number 2 came after 45 minutes later and was also tiny. Number 2 presented with tail first and legs folded up into body. Placenta then emerged but didn't deliver. I stayed with her till 3 am until the kids were dry and eating well. Mom was not in distress. Checked on her this morning and placenta hanging down to her feet so tied it up in a plastic glove. Labor STARTED AGAIN and I expected to see it deliver soon. Checked in 30 minutes and new bubble formed. Cleaned up, gloved up and went in. Massive dead doe stuck with front leg at cervix, head turned backward and blocking cervix. It took 30 minutes to re-position and deliver dead doe. I moved very slow but tried to only work with the contractions. Am sure that there are NO more kids in there. I have given Daffy molasses electrolyte water and pain med along with antibiotic. No signs of active bleeding. She is eating and nursing her kids. Along with worrying about tears, other injuries and infections -- I am wondering if I should ever breed her again. This is her 3rd kidding. Her kids present breech regularly. Oh, and the third kid was quite large compared to the other 2 kids. I read and follow advice from here and in fact, took courage before I gloved up and went in after reading that I really needed to. Sure enough- I really needed to and am glad I did but am worried that my doe will not make it or that she won't be able to have more kids. Anything to watch out for? How do you decide whether to breed again or not? This goat is so sweet she would never have to have another and I'd still love her to pieces. But as the queen, will she lose her status if she is never bred again? Thanks in advance.
     
    SalteyLove likes this.
  2. Damfino

    Damfino Well-Known Member

    Dec 29, 2013
    Right behind you
    I think she should be fine to breed again. It sounds like you did everything right and got the big kid out with minimal trauma to the doe. Nice job! If you had torn her uterus, she would be in a great deal of pain and distress and you would probably be seeing a lot of bright red blood. It's unlikely she would be up eating and nursing her babies.

    If you had to reach far in and do a lot of messing around then it's ok to give her a course of antibiotics "just in case". I've put a couple of my does on a week-long course of penicillin after bad kiddings. One doe delivered a stillborn that was starting to decay, and the other had a terrible malpresentation that required two hours worth of arm-deep excavation to finally remove it, after which she retained her placenta. If you feel like you may have introduced a lot of "yuck" into her womb, antibiotics may be in order to stave off infection. But if you were clean and she expelled the afterbirth then you may not feel antibiotics are warranted. It might be something to consult your vet about. But I would not be afraid to breed her again. Sometimes you just get bad luck one year.
     

  3. PippasCubby

    PippasCubby Well-Known Member

    589
    May 13, 2015
    E. WA
    I agree with Damfino.

    Good job doing what you needed to do to get that kid out.
     
    groovyoldlady and yankeedoodle like this.
  4. Hofman

    Hofman New Member

    8
    Mar 4, 2017
    Thanks
     
  5. Hofman

    Hofman New Member

    8
    Mar 4, 2017
    This is a new buck for us and after never having any kidding problems, this year has been a little different. Two does have kidded with a total of 5 does and 1 buck. The buck was stillborn and he was first in line to arrive. I had to pull him out too but he was in the birth canal, not sitting there in the uterus. Then Dulcie rejected one of the kids and it refused, ABSOLUTELY refused any type of nipple (and we tried 6 different kinds). That kid survived but we go to the barn every 2 hours to restrain and put her on mom. I had to use an eyedropper and feed her non-stop the first 3 days. I have only 1 more doe to go and it will be interesting to see if all goes well for her. It is her second freshening and she is a little bigger so has more room to allow for the kids to move around.

    Todays reach inside was very messy and I did end up in there up to my elbow. Luckily I have very, very small hands, which helped with getting in there, but was a challenge when I tried to grasp and move something as I would lose my grip and slide partly out. She has to be sore as can be.

    So, my most recent check on her and she is bleeding but a very small amount. She finally passed the placenta and there was much more matter this year than last. She is bleeding a little bit, more than with her other deliveries but not a huge amount. How do I judge what is too much and if it picks up, are there any things I can do myself? Any post pregnancy herbs to help or anything?
     
  6. yankeedoodle

    yankeedoodle Active Member

    191
    Apr 12, 2018
    Fraser Valley,B.C.
    A little bit of bleeding is normal, but it should disappear within a few days. You are doing an amazing job so far!
     
  7. Hofman

    Hofman New Member

    8
    Mar 4, 2017
    Thank you again. I get very factual in a crisis and then become a dithering idiot after the stress hormones settle down. I can't tell folks how valuable their posts are in teaching other goatie folks how to get through new or difficult experiences. I go to YouTube for how to videos as I learn visually but it would be great if we could watch "how to do stuff (and survive stuff) here and then ask a mentor questions. You'all are a great resource. And for any other new folks with a situation like this... trust these folks, they give good advice.
     
  8. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
  9. SalteyLove

    SalteyLove Well-Known Member

    Jun 18, 2011
    New England
    Great work keeping your wits about you and learning what needed to be done and recognizing there was an issue!

    I wouldn't hesitate to breed her again but she will not lose her status as herd queen due to not being bred (she will lose her status as herd queen due to age or introduction of new does.)

    Did anything change as far as the minerals you offer your goats this year?
    Also, did you experience a lot of snowfall and were the does cooped up more than normal during pregnancy? Exercise plays a critical part in the correct presentation of kids during birth.