Scrotal Split

Discussion in 'Meat Market' started by badnewsboers, Sep 3, 2008.

  1. badnewsboers

    badnewsboers New Member

    429
    May 9, 2008
    Newport, NC
    So I really shouldn't be shopping for goats, since I'm back at school and the breeder I sorta partner with is culling out his herd. However a nearby breeder who's goats I've been keeping an eye on has a buck kid I just really like for some reason. He's such a chunk at only just over 3 weeks and has some B-Mack goats in his pedigree. Ken likes him too and we were considering a trade. This kid does however have a small split in his testicles. ABGA permits a two inch split but since he's so young I don't know how big it will be as he grows. I'm inclined to say it will be under that limit but I don't know. How would you weigh that in your breeding program?

    Here's the link if you would like to look at him: http://www.whiteoakboergoats.net/kidsforsale.htm He's the first kid on the page.
     
  2. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    I am no boer breeder but would it be something that he can pass onto his kids? If not then you could get some kids out of him before he went out of breed standared if ever.

    Like I said I know nothing about breeding boers though
     

  3. badnewsboers

    badnewsboers New Member

    429
    May 9, 2008
    Newport, NC
    Yeah, I'm not sure how much of a genetic factor it is. :shrug: I know too much of a split can affect fertility in buck.
     
  4. AlaskaBoers

    AlaskaBoers New Member

    May 6, 2008
    Wasilla Alaska
    i dont think you can tell at this point. although it is risky if it was more than 2". The scrotal circumfrence heritability is 50% from sire, so there is a chance that this buck could pass it down, im thinking. does the sire or dams ansestors have a scrotal split 'habit?' or pattern?
     
  5. all1965

    all1965 New Member

    381
    Oct 6, 2007
    AR
    Scrotal splits are also a concern in the Fainting Goat World.
    I will never personally buy a buck with a scrotal split or breed one.
    I do have 1 buckling that has a very small maybe 1/4 in. scrotal split. He is still a buck and if someone wants him as a breeding buck I will sell him to them because it is small and Fainters too have a certain length before they are disqualified in a show ring.
    If he doesn't sell after this show, I will most likely wether him.

    It honestly depends on what you are breeding for.
    If you are just for meat production, i would say go for it. If you produce breeding stock and show goats I would first take a look at his Sire and then at his Sire's other buck kids and see if they have a split. If they don't I would move onto the Dam's buck kids. If none of the other kids have it I would proboly purchase him anyways.
     
  6. sweetgoats

    sweetgoats Moderator

    Oct 18, 2007
    Peyton CO.
    I was just going over that with the judge I was working with over the weekend. I asked her about that because she had a buck placed fairly high that had a split, and it was what I thought was way to high. She said NO it is only a concern when it is like about 3/8 of the testicle. She said that is for ALL breeds. I thought that if the testicles were split to bad that could cause the utter to be split.

    I just wanted to tell you WOW what a beautiful baby that guy is. :coffee2:
     
  7. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Key word "Culling out" :shades:
    A very nice looking buckling,,but cannot see his scrotum. I see the next buckling pictured below him and he has golden arches, looks like there may be a pattern going on. :shrug: He is to young to know yet where he is going,with size,muscling ,ect. At 3 months old you get a better idea of where he might take you,we do not put a set price on them until they are at least 2 mo. We have had kids looking real good at that age, to turn around at 2 to 3 mo being not much to look at, or a kid that wasn't much in the beginning, turn out being even better than the other ,you never know.
    As for the split ,one of our past bucks was within the show ring standards,"golden arches",unfortunately he passed the splits/arches to his offspring, he was a real nice looking well muscled buck , but we got real tired of that defect, so we sold him. It was not worth it to us. You will take a big risk and it is the worse feeling when you look at the little kids scrotum ,when they are born and there is a split, :hair: it is just heart breaking,, especially if you are breeding show quality goats.. :tears:

    If you are breeding just for meat the scrotum will not matter,but if you want show quality I would stay clear from it, good luck.


    http://tothboergoats.clearwire.net/
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2013
  8. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    It is pictured -- the last picture of him
     
  9. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    Her partner is culling while a nearby breeder has the buckling for sale she is asking about
     
  10. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
  11. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    thanks stacey. :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2013
  12. badnewsboers

    badnewsboers New Member

    429
    May 9, 2008
    Newport, NC
    There is only one buckling for sale on that page. Those are all pictures of him.

    I'm torn on this guy. I want to stick to show animals so I really don't want a defect like that passed in the herd. If I do get this guy it'd be a trade for a doe with a cull ear and who is a big pain. The ear thing though has not passed on.

    I emailed the seller to see if splits have occurred in his family before.
     
  13. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    very understandable badnewsboers , if the buck has a split it can and may pass it on,even with a buck that is born within the same bloodlines with perfect scrotum can also throw the defect,that could be a hit and miss factor. :shrug:
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2013
  14. badnewsboers

    badnewsboers New Member

    429
    May 9, 2008
    Newport, NC
    Well, here is what the seller said: "Hi- His sire hasn't thrown it but this one time and his dam hasn't either. His grandsire doesn't have it either. I think his great grandsire Remfire has about 1/4 inch and he is ennobled. The split is OK as long as it is less than 2 inches (which is VERY ugly). His split should be no more than 1 inch when fully matured. It is about 1/4 now. I think he should show very well, and be one of the largest in his classes. I have never seen a kid grow this fast- its amazing at how they are born so small and take off like that!!!"
     
  15. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    like said previously, hit and miss factor, that said from the breeder is proof in the pudding.. :shrug:

    So it all depends. It might hit more then miss or visa versa, miss more then hit. It is a gamble depending on split size :worried:
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2013
  16. heathersboers

    heathersboers New Member

    629
    Sep 5, 2008
    Wilson N.C.
    Hi- I'm the breeder of the little buck- YES it is possible for this guy to pass it on, It is a chance you have to be willing to take . I try to be honest about every goat I breed and sell. I like my potential buyers to be happy on my farm as well as when they get home, with what they purchase from me. Many boer goats have become ennobled even with a split, and I Personallly do not consider it a cull unless it is a very large split.(sell for meat-CULL) With the muscle this guy has at the age he is, I still think he will do very well in the ring. No goat is perfect. However, if their are 2 equal bucks in a show and one of them has a split and the other doesn't-the judge will 99% of the time choose the buck without the split. It is basically a personal preference, and whether the "goods" outweigh the "bads". In this case I believe that the muscle, length, topline and build he has to offer to add muscle to the herd outweighs the tiny split that he has in his testicles. If I would not show or breed with it myself-then I will not register it-let alone offer it as a herd sire. This is my opinion and everyone has a different one based on their beliefs. Thanks everyone!! :clap:
     
  17. liz

    liz Active Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Hi there!!! I agree, and commend you on your decision....when the good outweighs the "bad" ALOT of good can come from it....and the fact that you will/won't register or wether according to what you believe is a great attitude to have as a breeder. Shows responsibility for the blood lines :greengrin:
     
  18. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    so glad you joined!! great to hear the breeders point of view --- hehe just like the rest of us as most of us are fellow breeders too :wink:

    I hope you stick around too ---- always room for one more.
     
  19. heathersboers

    heathersboers New Member

    629
    Sep 5, 2008
    Wilson N.C.
    Yeah- I was looking around and this site linked to mine-so I figured i'd check it out!!! I looked at everyones site-and there is some of everything!!! Some nice goats too!! It's a great place to help one another with problems or just some helpful info-Thanks :type:
     
  20. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    certainly an interesting way to find us


    Glad you like it here. we have our rough patches here and there but 99% of the time we all get along and enjoy sharing what is most important to us