Selective Breeding, Help! Wanting Bigger, hardier Nubians.

Discussion in 'Goat Management' started by AlabamaGirl, Sep 14, 2020.

  1. AlabamaGirl

    AlabamaGirl Member

    41
    Jun 18, 2020
    Southeast
    I want heavy, hardy and tall Nubian's. At least 250 lbs, 35 inches (withers), live with little to no worming and trimmings, make lovely milkers and also have excellent breed conformation.

    Once I get the "look" I want they'd probably be around 60-70% Nubian and 40-30% meat goat and then I would get them appraised and hopefully achieve the Native On Appearance status, and work my way up to American Nubians!(woot)

    My question is, will they actually be able to achieve NOA status? They will be majority Nubian, and I'll breed for conformation and all that.. They ancestry will be quite mixed, but I don't want to worsen my reputation by accidentally doing something wrong.

    Sorry if this is a bit hectic to read, I'm just quite ambitious right now..
     
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  2. Sfgwife

    Sfgwife Well-Known Member

    Feb 17, 2018
    North Cakalaki

    Research nubian herds. Look at the attributes that you are wanting to jave. There may be a breeder that already has what you want. You just need to look for and find it. ;). When talkin to breeders ask about the feet and resistances. If they do not have what you are looking for they may send you to someone that they know that might.
     
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  3. Ranger1

    Ranger1 Well-Known Member

    Sep 1, 2014
    You can’t work your way up to American with only NOA stock-you’d have to breed to Purebred or American to be able to do that.
    I don’t want to discourage you from what you set out to do, but I would recommend that you pick only 1 or 2 traits of your highest priority to work on first. If you try working on too many at once it’ll be harder to make progress than if you focus on one or two traits at a time.
     
  4. Ranger1

    Ranger1 Well-Known Member

    Sep 1, 2014
    You can’t work your way up to American with only NOA stock-you’d have to breed to Purebred or American to be able to do that.
    I don’t want to discourage you from what you set out to do, but I would recommend that you pick only 1 or 2 traits of your highest priority to work on first. If you try working on too many at once it’ll be harder to make progress than if you focus on one or two traits at a time.
     
    AlabamaGirl likes this.
  5. Ranger1

    Ranger1 Well-Known Member

    Sep 1, 2014
    I’m gonna read my guidebook tonight and see what I can find on NOA. I know for recorded grades they are only supposed to be part of a dairy breed to be bred up to American-there is not supposed to be any miniature breeds, or meat breeds in them.
     
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  6. Goats Rock

    Goats Rock Member

    Jun 20, 2011
    NE Ohio
    You cannot breed Nubian to any meat breed and register with ADGA. You have to breed dairy to dairy.
    Even though Nubians started as dual purpose animals, they are now considered dairy goats.

    If someone did cross say a boer with Nubian. Down the line, if ADGA discovered it, all your animals and offspring could be stripped of their pedigrees. It's really serious.
     
  7. ksalvagno

    ksalvagno Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    You can't register a Nubian with any meat goat in them.
     
  8. goatblessings

    goatblessings Fair-Haven Supporting Member

    Jan 5, 2015
    Southwest Ohio
    There are many quality breeders who have decades invested in developing their lines. I recommend researching the herds that perform both in the show ring and with their DHIR data... it takes many years to start from scratch ... and yes you cannot cross meat with diary if you want registered dairy goats.
     
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  9. AlabamaGirl

    AlabamaGirl Member

    41
    Jun 18, 2020
    Southeast
  10. Morning Star Farm

    Morning Star Farm Well-Known Member

    356
    Sep 26, 2018
    There are some very big purebred registered Nubian lines already out there. I have seen some does upwards of 300lbs and some bucks who weighed more than 350lbs. They are usually 2 gallon + milkers too when they have the conformation to go with the size. Certain lines are known for tall, big boned nubians. They are usually hardy and thrifty, but as they get old, it can be hard for their joints to support their bulk.
     
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  11. goatblessings

    goatblessings Fair-Haven Supporting Member

    Jan 5, 2015
    Southwest Ohio
    Also consider, if you want the big dairy goats, you want a large boned goat with fabulous feet - a great foundation to support structure. Stay away from some lines that tend to breed lighter boned animals - they need to be able to support the weight. Ditto what morning star said above, many times, you are giving up something to get something else. You have to find the things that are MOST important in your lines...... go with breeder who have been doing this for many, many years. You will spend some $$$ = but experience and a track record is worth the investment. I breed what I like - some things are more important to me than others. You will NEVER find a "perfect" goat.
     
  12. lottsagoats1

    lottsagoats1 Well-Known Member

    Apr 12, 2014
    Middle Maine
    I had a line of Nubians that came from the Saada herd, or at least the founding buck did. He was HUGE! Way taller than my Mini horse, almost as tall as my Hackney pony. I never weighed him, but once he matured, he was a big boy. Lovely udders on his daughters, great production, good feet and they appeared to be fairly resistant to worms and hoof rot. I sold him and kept a son, as he was just way too big. Well, his son matured that big also, as did his grandson! I only have a few does from that line now. The 2 (twin sisters) from the original buck and their daughters are huge, easy keepers, great producers and can be considered dual purpose, as these 2 are the ones I always keep buck kids from for freezer camp. They are mixed breeds, but the size and all come from the sires side, not the dams. Their dam was a small, petite, sort of mediocre production, Saanen X Lamancha cross. Those bucks sure passed on their genetics!

    The bucklings I sent to slaughter from these guys for my freezer compared to Boer bucklings of the same age. My Boer raising friends didn't believe me until i showed them the paperwork from the slaughterhouse. LOL

    There are Nubians out there that will meet your goals, but you will have to search for them, as they are not what people are breeding for these days (except for a few old timers like myself who love the dual purpose, old timey Nubians).

    And, as has been mentioned, you cannot cross a standard goat with any sort of meat goat, fiber goat or Pygmy/dwarf and register them with ADGA. If you get caught, you will be banished from ADGA and all your stock will have their papers pulled, even those you may have sold, and all their progeny.
     
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  13. AlabamaGirl

    AlabamaGirl Member

    41
    Jun 18, 2020
    Southeast
    Thanks, I've been trying to find lines of Nubians that fit my size ideals but I haven't found any yet. I looked on the Saada Facebook since their website is down, and the girls are real pretty and big, the only problem is that they don't put the height or weight down for any of their breeding stock. If I don't find what I'm looking for I may just create my own breed! Do you have any pictures of the big Saada buck you had or his family members?

    Referring to the part about giving something up, I want a tall, dual-purpose goat with a good hardiness to them and strong Nubian features. Is it not possible for a goat to have these traits? If it's not, I'm perfectly fine with tuning the traits I want.

    Thanks, I'm definitely going to try and get lines that withstand their bulkiness, I want my goats to live quality lives and not be burdened by their own body.. Is this the case with all large bodied nubians or just some?
     
  14. AlabamaGirl

    AlabamaGirl Member

    41
    Jun 18, 2020
    Southeast
    upload_2020-9-21_18-49-54.jpeg

    This is the near the body-type I'm looking for in my bucks and does, mine would probably be a little longer in the ears but he's otherwise perfect. Unfortunately, he isn't in the USA so his genes aren't really accessible.
     
  15. goatblessings

    goatblessings Fair-Haven Supporting Member

    Jan 5, 2015
    Southwest Ohio
    So saada stopped breeding around 2016 - so you won’t find anything directly from them although some breeders may have some semen in the tank. Breeders don’t put down height ( you can find scores on la though if they are appraised) or weight - primary focus for the breede is first and foremost they are are dairy breed. Udders and milk production are a primary focus along with dairy appearance. When you add bulk - above- you give up a lot of that dairies that is desirable in the breed. A lot of the “old style” Nubians were stouter and heavier, the more modern Nubian is taller. Nubians can be faulted if too heavily muscled - when I say you give up something - I’m talking about what is most desirable for the breed - boy above is a huge beef cake for sure - but he also is higher in the rump than the withers and is posty behind - hence the no perfect goat. Breed what YOU like - you may have to look into some semen from old style sites to see if they have in the tank that suits your needs. There are some quality breeders out there with some fine herds ... take at look at the adga website for top performers, elite does, sires etc.
     
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  16. AlabamaGirl

    AlabamaGirl Member

    41
    Jun 18, 2020
    Southeast
    Thanks, I didn't even realize his posty legs and such. I'll definitely be looking thru ADGA records in search for some quality herds and if y'all have any more recommended breeders, do tell!
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2020
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