The Goat Spot Forum banner
1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I need some advice…

So I believe I have some selenium deficient kids from two mommas, triplets from one mom and twins from the next. They are sisters and do every thing together including kidding at the same time yesterday and they are sharing kid responsibilities taking turns doing rounds and checking on and cleaning the kids (I have never seen anything like it before).

I suspected selenium deficiencies in the kids and I have BoSe and they were all given some yesterday evening by weight. The smallest kid is 1.3lbs from the triplet group and her brother and sister (2.4 lbs and 3.1lbs) are eating and doing well. She had a suckle reflex at birth (3:30pm yesterday) but it quickly disappeared by evening. She also has weak hocks and pasterns and does seem premature. I have been tube feeding her to make sure she got colostrum and to give her a fighting chance. The twins (both just over 3 lbs) from the other doe both suckled at birth but lost it by evening as well and there was noticeable hock/pattern weakness but it’s seems to be getting better since the Bose shot. So I’m tube feeding them now as well to make sure they get enough to eat. All kids also received fortified b complex too.

I want the twins to be dam fed but how long should it take before they want to suckle again? I have been trying and trying to get them to latch and they just won’t.
I’m taking things slower with the little doeling with her being the weakest but I hope she’ll eventually be strong enough to eat from momma, if not she’ll be a bottle baby and I’m ok with that I really just want her to make it.

Vet said not to use BoSe during pregnancy and to give it after they kidded which is why I didn’t give it to them. But I have seen where people give it during the last couple weeks of pregnancy so I’m kicking myself thinking I could have maybe avoided all this 🙁
I have also read where some people give kids with no suckle reflex a shot of Bose for 2-3 days. I thought it is easily overdosed? If not, is this something I should consider?

I really want to get the twins sucking and back on momma as soon as possible. I truly appreciate any suggestions or advice. 🙂
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
91,404 Posts
BO-Se is given once after birth to babies who are weak, no suck reflex or have weak or crooked legs.

Larger breeds get 1/4 to half cc SQ. Smaller breeds 1/8 th to a 1/4 cc.
All depending on size.

Have you tried to take the kid and open the mouth, squirt some milk directly from the teat, into the mouth, release, tickle tailhead, repeat?

If the doe is tight, milk out some to make her less tight/big, so they can latch on easier.

You can get a new 12 cc syringe, fill with mama’s milk, put it at the back corner of the mouth and insert your index finger in the mouth, mimicking the teat, moving it in and out slightly, still leaving the finger in the mouth.
This helps stimulate the suck reflex.

Have someone tickle the tailhead at the same time.
Drench very slowly at the back corner of the mouth, if the kid coughs stop and wait til the kid stops coughing, then proceed.

It may take a little while for it to happen. You can feed a few syringe fulls(no needle of course). ;)

When you get the suck reflex, try the kid on mom, doing as I explained above.
Keep trying. Go out every couple of hours.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
16,037 Posts
The problem is we all do things differently because we all on different scales if selenium deficiency (or not).
Personally I wouldn’t feel comfortable giving it for 2-3 days. I would start with the recommended dose and sit and watch for a day or so. If we consider the dose for Bose is 1cc per 40#, 1/2 is enough for 20#, 1/4 for 10#. So with the kid dose they are getting a good amount right there.
I myself give dose BOSE 1 month before kidding. I have had devastating issues with selenium deficiency. Then I give every kid born 1/2cc (full sized Boers). The few that are showing signs of deficiency they usually straighten out in a day.
Now just making sure, are you positive they don’t have suck reflex and are just not hungry? If you are just not seeing them eat they might be sneaking in meals when your not looking. If they are crying and or super sucked in then obviously they are not eating. There has been times I didn’t think kids were eating but then learned they sure let you know if they are not.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I’m sorry for being so late replying. Thank you both for your replies 🤗 yes the twins and tiny doeling had absolutely no suck reflex at all and their sides were sunken in which is why I was continuing to tube feed. The poor little tiny doeling passed away yesterday afternoon. 😔 She was doing ok, she got her tube feed meal and was even trying to hop around. I gave her another b complex shot and set her down to play so she could hop around a bit more. She started just holding her head low and making squeak noises. Her tongue looked slightly blueish to me. I picked her up and she just laid sideways and started kicking and passed away. I don’t know if it was heart related or what but she had started seeming a little stronger and I hoped she had a chance to make it.

I stopped the tube feeding for the twins and started working with them every hour to get them practicing nursing. They both eventually got hungry enough that they started trying and it took a little to get coordinated but with help they finally got it.
They seemed a little slow and still kind of do so I continued to go out there every two hours and point them at momma to eat which worked like a charm and the brown eyed one was even eating without my guidance. I would check their tummies to see if they were sunken at every feeding. The blue eyed doe is always empty by next meal and needs guidance to get to the right area. 12 am came and the blue eyed one didn’t want to eat and seemed sluggish. I thought she was sounding slightly raspy and her sister too so I gave them Tylan 200 just in case. 2 hours later they were bouncing around eating like little piggies. Blue eyed girl actually ate from both mommas 🤦‍♀️ They were doing great this morning but by 12 their appetites dwindled again. They did get their next dose of Tylan and I am doing probiotics 3 hours after. It is HOT and I have a fan up as well as ice bags wrapped in cloth for them to lay next to and they just look miserable and lay under the fan. Blue eyed girl is sunken in again and doesn’t want to eat and brown eyed girl is catching up on the sunken-ness. Is it normal for babies to not want to eat during the hot hours of the day. Is there anything else I can be doing? If they do have something respiratory related like pneumonia going on how long before the Tylan takes care of it? They also don’t have fevers so far. I was starting to feel like we had a victory when they were both eating from momma well but now I’m starting to feel defeated.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
35,078 Posts
Are you seeing them poop?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Yes they are definitely pooping and peeing. Their poops had turned to the yellow pudding poops but this afternoon they have gone to the yellow logs. I rechecked their temps and they are still completely normal.
I’m in Florida so of course our weather just changed and now it’s pouring and a thunderstorm so I’m hoping with it cooling off they might start eating.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
So… it finally cooled off and brown eyed girl ate and ate and ate like she was starving and now she’s back to jumping and playing and acting herself. So I’m thinking she just isn’t loving the heat. Blue eyed girl is still not eating. She showed a little interest but stopped and she seems a little more raspy. Even without a fever should I give a dose of banamine to maybe help her feel better? Or wait until her next dose of Tylan which will be midnight. Also do you think I should syringe or tube some of mammas milk into her with her not feeling well so she doesn’t go too long without eating? Or should I wait a little longer on that too to see if she starts nursing?

Im sorry for all the questions. I’m trying to not be paranoid but I want to stay on top of this so she makes it through it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Yes, the little brown eyed doe was 3lbs 12oz day of birth (3pm on the 22nd) and the blue eyed doe 3lbs10oz and today they were both 4.1lbs this morning. They were gaining with the tube feeding and fell behind a little while learning to eat and gained again last night eating from their momma. I’ll weigh them again this evening.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
35,078 Posts
If she seems sunken in..give her a tiny pinch of cayenne pepper in honey to perk her up then give a little moms milk via a bottle. B complex would hurt either.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I was able to coax her to nurse for a few seconds from mom and there was a little bit of gusto from her 🥳 I am so happy that there were happy tears. I know a few seconds isn’t a lot but at least it’s a step in the right direction. I am hearing her sneeze as well now though. Can the Tylan 200 still be working and her have a good chance at getting better?

If she seems mopey tonight during her feedings how often can the honey and cayenne be used to perk her up? Also, how much honey should she get at a time?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I know everyone likes pictures 😉 so… here’s a picture of my blue eyed girl tonight during snuggle time. ( I really have to step up my name game 😐)
And here are the kids snuggling with their ice bag
today to try to beat the heat. (She’s the one on top of the ice bag)
I have more ice packs and bottles freezing for tomorrow to create more cooling stations for them.

I want to say thank you all for replying and giving me your advice and suggestions. I’ll definitely keep giving updates here to let everyone know how the kids are doing.
I’ll probably have more questions too 🤷🏼‍♀️😬
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thank you, I think they’re pretty cute myself 😏 This morning they were climbing all over mommas and bouncing around… it never gets old 🥰

Because of her lack of apatite I was checking temp at every feeding to make sure it didn’t raise or drop and also because of her respiratory issue, which does seem a little better today. She was really having a hard time with the heat. Thankfully it’s overcast and the high is only 88 today (compared to 99 yesterday) so they’ll get somewhat of a break.

She ate well through the night but needing direction at every feeding, her sister did as well. But I was just out there and I walked up to her eating off momma and then she helped herself to a top off from aunt Pennywise lol. Her sister is also finding the teat on her own now too.

I do have some questions 😬
Does anyone think their slowness to eat without guidance was directly due to the selenium deficiency or are some kids just like that? 🤔
Also, babies got BoSe by weight day of kidding, but today is Replamin plus day for all other goaties. Is it too early to give them a smudge because of the selenium shot they had?

I am revamping my vitamin mineral program after all this. I used to use sweetlix meat maker but no one in my area has it so I’d always have to order it from Jeffers and they’d either have it on back order or they’d run out before they could ship it to me and have to refund. So I have been using the purina minerals from tractor supply but I’m not impressed. I don’t have very good water, calcium, iron etc so does anyone have any other mineral suggestions that TSC or a rural king might carry?

Also do I need to start a new thread with all my new questions? (I’m not quite sure how this works 👀)
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
91,404 Posts
If they had a selenium injection such as BO-Se. Do not give more selenium.

Maybe mama goat isn’t wanting to stand there for her babies because she is too hot or udder too tight.

Have you watch them?
Have you checked mama’s udder, is it tight? If so, milk some out to make her comfortable and then put the kids on her.

I would go out and tie up the doe and make sure they latch on. Encourage it, so they do not dehydrate.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Ok, no replamin for the littles, thank you!

Yesterday I did have to milk momma out when the kids were not eating a lot because her udder was starting to get tight but it hasn’t been a problem since. Both latch now and eat well and momma stands while they are eating without a problem.

I go out there and make sure they eat every two hours and did through the night too and check bellies to make sure they eat enough every time so I know they are getting enough milk. I’ll keep up the every two hour checks for at least another couple days to make sure they are consistently eating well.
They were weighed this morning and Acorn, (my daughter named her) gained 5oz since yesterday mornings weigh in and her sister, Noodle, gained 4oz.
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top