Should I lute a young "oops" breeding?

Discussion in 'Goat Management' started by top_goat, Nov 3, 2019.

  1. I have an 8 month old registered Nubian doeling who got exposed to TWO bucks when they both broke out a few days ago. Aaarrrggghhhh! I feel like she is still too small to breed... Mature weight should be about 100#. I can still (barely) lift her, which means she's probably about 65-70#.

    I feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place! I mess with her hormones and terminate the pregnancy. Or I let it go... with all the risks... but then still don't know "Who's your daddy?".

    Suggestions? If I do lute her, what would be the dose for one so young? Thanks, y'all!
  2. ksalvagno

    ksalvagno Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    I'd probably let it go. Can you actually weigh her?

  3. Jessica84

    Jessica84 Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2011
    If you can still pick her up jump on a scale with her, then weigh yourself and take that off the weight you got with you holding her.
    Personally I despise Lute and unless she was super small i would leave her be and sell the kids as commercial or get a DNA test done if I thought it was worth it
    top_goat and Iluvlilly! like this.
  4. Goat Whisperer

    Goat Whisperer Well-Known Member

    Dec 3, 2018
    I’d lute.

    Lute is used all the time to sync breedings, it’s really not a big deal. I’m going to lute some does in a few weeks to ensure they’ll be in heat when I have my bucks collected. Last year, I had to lute most of my 2018 doelings after a hurricane came through and knocked down our fences. They are all fine.

    What risks are you worried about?

    Is she a purebred Nubian, or Mini Nubian? 100# mature weight is still very small for a PB Nubian. No way I’d want a 65# PB Nubian working. She needs to grow and mature.
  5. I thought of DNA testing... my biggest concern w/letting it go is #1 her immaturity (these buck lines tend to throw big kids) and #2 when I do breed her neither of these guys are the one I'd prefer to breed her to! They are both really good... especially the younger... but they are just too closely related. What to do what to do???
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
  6. Chuckle... that hurricane wouldn't have been Harvey, would it? These are PB registered Nubians, but the maternal line runs a bit small. Grandma was 105 on the vet scale as a 2+ yo. Mama is about that size at almost 24 months. Perhaps this line is just a bit slower to reach full maturity... either way I am concerned.

    As for lute... 2 months ago the younger of these two rogue bucks discovered the LGD tunnel between his paddock and the barnyard. I went out to milk one morning and guess who greeted me, so proud of his clandestine accomplishments? On advice of vet I luted her and another little girl... both were 6 months old at the time. Both had horrific reactions to the lute... loss of motor control, strumbling. I don't know who was more terrified -- them or me! I prayed over them and physically supported and comforted them until it passed. Fortunately they both recovered fully in 5-10 minutes, but that really scared me. I thought I'd killed them! A week later a friend in FL reported exactly the same reaction in one of her juvenile doelings she had luted. My vet said he'd never heard of such a thing... but here are 3 young doelings in 2 different states under 2 different owners with the same response. Probably also rules out a "bad batch" due to distance and my lute was newer while hers was older. So yeah... I'm a bit concerned. Did I overdose? Vet told me 2cc IM in the neck. If I lute, should I cut that back?

    Thanks so much y'all!
    browervillegoats likes this.
  7. Ranger1

    Ranger1 Well-Known Member

    Sep 1, 2014
    Last time with the lute, did you ensure to pull back before injecting, to make certain you weren’t in a vein?
    top_goat likes this.
  8. ksalvagno

    ksalvagno Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    If your boys throw big kids, then I would lute. That is a big factor.

    You have to give the right amount of lute or it doesn't work. You don't have to give it in the neck. You can give it in any big muscle. It is important that any time you give a shot, you pull back on the plunger of the syringe to make sure you didn't hit a vein. Doesn't matter if you are doing SQ or IM.
    SandyNubians and top_goat like this.
  9. Yes, definitely pulled back... nada... This time go for the rear leg muscle...:ahh:

    OK... so big kids... small young doe... lute. Is 2cc the correct dosage? Sort of a universal dosage like CDT? Thanks!
    Iluvlilly! likes this.
  10. ksalvagno

    ksalvagno Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

  11. thank you!!!!!

    PS... I don't have opportunity to be on this site as much as I used to... but I love it and all of you so much! Thank you for always being there for the goat community!
    happybleats and toth boer goats like this.
  12. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
  13. Honey21

    Honey21 Well-Known Member

    Jan 25, 2014
    Orangeburg sc
    Remember she will mature during her pregnancy. She has five more months to grow
  14. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    There is no guarantee she will grow being preggo.
    A lot of nutrients will go to her kids, not her, unless she is overly fed, which is a really bad idea.
    To me, it is not worth the risk of her being small and young. Let alone, being pregnant too. :(
    top_goat and SandyNubians like this.
  15. SandyNubians

    SandyNubians Well-Known Member

    Feb 18, 2017
    I agree. I would lute. I once bought a 9 month old Nigerian doe and her sister. Both were 2 weeks bred at the time I got them. Both were about 40-45lbs and supposedly bred to a F4 mini nubian. Turns out that buck was a boer(at least based on coloring) and probably only an F1. He was easily twice their size and 100+lbs. One doe didn't survive the kidding, the other passed out and nearly didn't survive either. She did, but her udder never fully matured, and she is a little smaller than my other Nigerians.

    At only 60+lbs bred to a buck(s) who I assume are probably 100+lbs and are know to throw big kids. That just doesn't seem worth the risk. She sounds like a nice doe that you like. You can always breed her again, but if she dies you will be kicking yourself over it forever.

    As for the lute reactions. That sounds strange, I've never heard of that before. I worked at a dairy goat farm in montana for about 2 years. All their does were given lute to heat sync them, and also to kid at the same times. They never had a reaction and we probably did 100 different does, twice a year. We never gave it in the neck though so maybe that was the problem? We used 1/2" 20G needles in the back leg at the dairy, and that's what I've always done when using lute since.
  16. Goats Rock

    Goats Rock Member

    Jun 20, 2011
    NE Ohio
    I luted 4 young does last year. 2 it didn't work on. They went on to have successful kids, but the birthing was rough. (Buck was in pen breeding a doe, I literally left the pen for 5 minutes.) He bred at least 2 of the youngsters, but I luted all 4, they were way too young to breed. (Alpines, he was a Lamancha)

    Just be cautious of using lute. Don't get it on your skin and if you are preg. yourself, either have someone administer it or wear rubber gloves and be very careful.
  17. That's my thought, Pam @toth boer goats -- If I feed her for growth (which obviously she needs), the kids will take the bulk of it. This is part of the reason human teenage pregnancies are so risky. If I try to manage kid growth, she won't grow either! It is just risky all the way around.

    And yes, @SandyNubians -- she is very nice, and I really like her! She is one of those "buddy" goats that calls to you and follows you around and just loves to be loved. RIcky.Shofar 05.18.2019_01.JPG I only maintain a very small herd, but I was really blessed this year to see almost 100% return on my breeding goals -- and she is one of those. I do not want to compromise her or -- worse -- lose her! This is actually only her 2nd heat cycle... and the little hussy gets herself bred on both of them! (of course, it's not totally her fault... Little Ricky (1/2 brother, also this year's crop) is extremely eager and creative!!! I sure hope this is indicative of good things to come for both of them! LOL (1st photo is Ricky @ 2 mos; 2nd photo is GloriaAnna @ 2 mos) GloriAnna 05.22.19_02 (2).JPG
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  18. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
  19. Goat Whisperer

    Goat Whisperer Well-Known Member

    Dec 3, 2018
    Wow! I understand why you would be hesitant to use it!

    We have never had anything like that! It is so commonly used around here, I've never heard of such a reaction! If you do give it, I wouldn't give it in the neck again....
    GoofyGoat and top_goat like this.