Sick Doe - wormer question post 9

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by HoosierShadow, Sep 14, 2010.

  1. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    Hey everyone, I was wanting to get your opinions.
    I posted over a week ago that my two nursing does are on the thin side - what we were told to feed them - wasn't enough. So we did up their grain, and started them on calf manna. One doe is picking up more weight.
    The other doe has had me concerned for the past week. I've slowly increased her feed, making sure she gets a mix of good hay, but she's skin and bones :(
    I wanted to say that their kids are fine, no weight issues there.

    I seriously do believe my doe has a worm load. She has gone down hill quickly, but is still trying to be her usual self, but she does lay down more.
    We did worm not too long ago -- oral safeguard.

    I have been gone the past two nights working late into the evening at a horse sale, and my husband failed to mention, leave a note or call me and tell me that the doe had a temp of 104.7 yesterday. Now, I don't know what time he took the temp, it was warm out, but he said he gave her banamine and she perked up after that.
    She was eating her grain this morning and going after the hay, so I didn't think anything of it, just the fact....she looks bad :(

    Her twins have big bellies, which even though they were just wormed, I do again believe it's worms and they need another round of wormer.

    Could this be what is causing my doe to go downhill ? If we use safeguard tonight, could we use ivermectin tomorrow? Is it dangerous to use the two like that? I'm thinking safeguard isn't getting the worms. I can get safeguard after I get done at the sale tomorrow.

    Ivermectin pour on? or injectible?
    We are used to safeguard, in fact that's all the horse farms here that my husband or myself have ever worked on have used.

    Everyone else seems to be fine, but we'll give everyone a dose of wormer tomorrow.

    I want my girl to get better, I haven't spent much time with them since before Friday, I feed them and visit with them as much as possible <I miss them!>, but it's frightening seeing my doe so thin.

    Thanks for listening to me ramble, and any and all advise would be great.
     
  2. Realfoodmama

    Realfoodmama New Member

    425
    Apr 12, 2010
    Santa Fe, NM
    Re: Sick Doe

    Some questions:

    how many kids is your doe nursing?

    how much milk is she producing?

    how are her poops?

    what exactly are you feeding her?

    does she have access to minerals?

    I had a doe kid this year who was also terribly skinny. She had twin boys who grew like weeds, was producing probably 1.5 gallons a day in the beginning (5 months later she is still producing nearly 3 quarts daily), and just wouldn't gain weight.

    I added BOSS (black oil sunflower seeds) and beet pulp to her grain on the recommendation of folks here and saw an improvement in her mood pretty quickly. She also has access to (and LOVES) a free choice mineral powder.

    She is still pretty thin but has slowly gained weight. I did a fecal for worms and she was 100% clean - I also suspected this was a problem for her.
     

  3. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    Re: Sick Doe

    yes you need a stronger wormer -- give her the ivermectin injectable at a rate of 1cc per 20lbs but give it orally- treat the kids the same too

    the safeguard is obviously not effective and I wouldnt use it anymore. Its rarely effective except for tapeworms.

    Treat yoru doe again (same dosage) in 7-10 days.
     
  4. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    Re: Sick Doe

    Thanks so much! I'll get the ivermectin tomorrow and treat her right away.
    Her temp is close to 105! But it has been in the mid 80s too, and I remember when I took her temp a month ago to compare to a sick kid, that it was hot and her temp was around 104 <she was fine>.
    I've noticed the big downhill since about 2 weeks ago, but in the last few days she's looking awful :(

    Realfoodmama -
    She has twins -10 weeks old on Thurs. She is a boer/dairy mix, maybe kiko? Not sure about milk since we don't milk her, but her kids seem to be doing fine. They are a little over 20lbs each right now.
    We feed our goats a 16% medicated goat feed that was recommended by all local breeders. I added calf manna to the mix about a week ago.
    I do have loose mineral - nutralix I believe <spelling?> for goats.
    grass hay, clover hay, and my husband just got down some good alfalfa to put in the mix for her.
    I saw her poo yesterday and it was normal.

    We just gave more safeguard for tonight, and my husband gave her banamine, and la200 <just in case>. My poor sweetie :( She's out in our backyard grazing with the others. I gave her a look over, to make sure I saw no parasites on the skin, didn't see anything noticable, but tomorrow I'll put some powder on her - just in case...
    I put 1 cup of grain in the feeder for her, and she nibbled on it, but she did go over for the alfalfa. I'm thinking she could possibly not like the calf manna.

    Would adding the beet pulp be a good idea on top of the calf manna for her? Just until we get her at a healthy weight?

    Our other doe I have seen improvement. See, I was told only give them 2 cups of grain a day. BUT, that is not enough, and thanks to asking here on the forum, I found that out and got the grain increased, with the calf manna added.
    They were doing okay, until about like I said just a couple of weeks ago. Everyone is together, and I haven't seen any problems with the other goats. But tomorrow we'll dose everyone up with the ivermectin.

    Thanks again for the help, it's greatly appreciated.
     
  5. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Re: Sick Doe

    I agree with Stacey.....

    Her temp is high....on the la 200 antibiotic....i would give it for 5 days...not just 1x
    she may be getting pneumonia.....because of being under condition.....

    her kids can pull her down... as they get older...... making her lose condition...if they get her ....to far down..... I will pull the kids at 2.5 mo..... or sooner depending on condition......

    I recommend though getting a fecal done on her.....she still could have cocci.... kidding can trigger worms and cocci ....adults dont always show scouring symptoms..... they just lose condition....despite of being fed well....... get a test done for cocci and worms......

    just add a small amount of beet pulp.....
     
  6. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    Re: Sick Doe

    I personally wouldnt do much diet changes at this point. just keep giving her what you have been.
     
  7. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    Re: Sick Doe

    Thanks so much. I'll have to find a vet locally that can do a fecal, I'd assume any vet could, but most of the vets in this area don't do goats, surely that doesn't mean they can't check a fecal for me. Whatever it is, it's really affecting her. I'll check her temp again in the morning when I go out to feed, and being inside tonight I can check her poo to make sure it's still normal.
     
  8. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    Re: Sick Doe

    you can also send a fecal out to WADDL. They charge 9.00 for the fecal and its 10.00 for the accession fee so its 19.00 but each additional fecal is just 9.00 if sent at the same time. :thumb:
     
  9. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Re: Sick Doe

    Your welcome....... good luck with your Doe....keep us updated... :hug:
     
  10. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    Re: Sick Doe

    Thanks so much! I just got home from the sale that I've been working. I stopped and they were out of the small bottle of ivermectin injectible. He told me I could try the Ivermectin sheep drench? I bought it but wanted to ask what you all thought? If I shouldn't use it, then I can exchange it for ivermectin - they will have more tomorrow. I also made sure to get more LA200. How often should I give the LA200, and what's the dosage, sorry I meant to write it down and can't seem to find it in my notes.
     
  11. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    LA 200 is 1cc per 20 pounds SQ

    you can use the drench (to my knowledge) just make sure that you dose it accurately.
     
  12. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    not familiar with the drench and its dosage - I would think it would work though :)
     
  13. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    not familiar either....I would go with ivermectin injectible....it is something I know and use....works well for me......oops ....I mean my goats...I don't worm myself...LOL :laugh:
     
  14. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    Since we didnt' know anyone that has used this stuff, I am taking it back. One of the other feed store's in town has the small bottle of Ivermectin Inj. and it's over $10 cheaper than the store I typically go to! I think I'm switching feed stores for supplies! <We buy our feed in another county....>.

    Another question. Out of curiosity, I saw that it kills lice and mites too. If given orally does it still do that? I haven't seen anything on my goats, their coats seem fine, skin looks fine. Yeah I don't know much about this, and I should :( I'd like to know so I can put it in my notes, then I will know...! LOL
     
  15. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    I dont think it kills lice or mites if given orally. So you give it as an injection 1cc per 100lbs
     
  16. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    I agree...it has to be injected.... :wink:
     
  17. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    Thanks, lots to learn about this stuff :) So just another question for this subject. If you want to treat both internal and external, do you just give the injection? I have never dealt with this kind of stuff ever, the worst I've ever dealt with was....fleas on a dog LOL

    BTW, what I bought was Noromectin <Ivermectin>, by Norbrook. He said it's the exact same thing as the name brand Ivermectin.
     
  18. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Same drug...same dose. You are right, if you want to get both internal and external you'll need to inject it.
     
  19. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
  20. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    Thanks so much, I think to be on the safe side we'll just give her an inject. My husband will be home soon, so we'll give it to her then.