Size of kids and first time moms

Discussion in 'Goat Frenzy' started by Maggie, Dec 14, 2010.

  1. Maggie

    Maggie New Member

    Nov 5, 2010
    Floyd, Va
    I have more to add to my endless questions :p
    We have been looking for a new buck to add to our herd. We had initially been looking for a yearling but, but we stumbled upon a 3yro buck. My concern though is his large size. I am guessing from his photos, he is at least 250 pounds if not closer to 300. We have two 2 1/2 yro does that are approx 150-170 pounds, which may already be bred. We have 3 does that are a little over 8 months old, and about 90-120 pounds. They will not be bred until they are 12 months, so I'd expect them to be at least 110- 130 pounds. Would he be too large to breed to these does? Only one of the 2 1/2 year olds has kidded before.
    With the horses in MOST cases the dam's size determines the size of the growing fetus and in utero development. There was a study done with draft stallions being bred to shetland mare. The foals we born the size a purebred shetland would have been. Is this the case with goats as well? Or will the fetus grow too large for the doe and cause dystocia?
     
  2. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    The size of the buck can help determine the size of the kids -- like dont breed a standard buck to a mini doe, thats asking for trouble.

    As to in the same breed -- well the bucks are normally larger when full grown then does. Just because the buck is currently young and small doesnt mean his kids will be any smaller then normal boer kids.

    I would ask the owner of the buck you are interested in what the normal birth weights of his kids have been. Does he throw small kids or larger kids? that will help you much better then the size of the buck himself.
     

  3. Maggie

    Maggie New Member

    Nov 5, 2010
    Floyd, Va
    Ok, thanks Stacey
     
  4. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    I have to agree with Stacey... she is correct.... :thumb: :wink:
     
  5. DPW

    DPW New Member

    92
    Mar 13, 2010
    Crow, Oregon.
    Genetics is a tricky thing. There has not been the extensive genetic research done on goats as other more "popular" livestock such as cattle and sheep. But most that are doing the research have no reason to believe that the genetic rules that apply to other species do not apply to goats as well.
    One of those rules is that birthweight is not as heritable as say weight gain after weaning. Besides, that buck may have been no larger at birth than others in his herd. He may simply have the genetic make up and nutrition that allowed him to grow into the buck he is today.
    The following table was copied and pasted from Langston University's goat research web site.

    Table 1. Heritability Estimates from Sheep Research with Implications for Meat Goats

    Traits, Heritability Value, %

    Doe fertility 5 to 10
    Kids born per doe kidding 10
    Scrotal circumference 35
    Age a puberty 25
    Kid survival 5
    Weight of kid weaned per doe exposed 20
    Kid weight at birth; 15
    Kid weight at 90 days 25
    Postweaning gain 40
    Carcass weight 35
    Loin eye area 35
    Dressing percentage 10
    Milk yield 30

    I believe that a doe over 100 lbs that is healthy should have no problem kidding offspring from a 250 lb - 300 lb buck. Our first buck was in the 275 lb range. His offspring ranged in the neighborhood of 7 1/2 - 9 lbs at birth.
    If the kid emerges in a normal birth position even first timers will usually kid successfully.
    It is still difficult for me to watch the doe go through the excrutiating pain of getting the head and shoulders passed the pelvic bone. I want to help but I know mother nature has been doing this a lot longer than I have. It is important to know how to help if there is a problem though. There usually is no time to wait for a vet.
    My two cents.