So what do y'all know about mummified/monster fetuses...?

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by RedLotusNigerians, Aug 29, 2012.

  1. RedLotusNigerians

    RedLotusNigerians Member

    223
    Dec 13, 2011
    Well, my Harmony still wasn't showing improvement so I got in contact with a vet. Got turned down by two of them because they didn't have experience with uterine infections in goats, but finally I got one that barely batted an eye at the question; he says it ain't much different than cows with UIs. He's also a mobile vet so I was happy to avoid the stress in hauling her on a long ride and back. I really like this vet, and not just because he's mobile; he knows what he's talking about, unlike many of the other vets in this state regarding goats.

    He came out and did a uterine flush and removed a few small chunks of something from her uterus, plus she's been given Lutalyse to keep her open for draining. No foul smell with anything. She'll be given another Lute in 10 days and she'll continue on the Excenel. If she doesn't show sign of recovering in 10 days on the Excenel though she'll need to be x-rayed, as he isn't ruling out a possible monster kid, mummified kid, or even an eviscerated kid that could be stuck in there from a previous breeding prior to the buck she had been in with. I dunno what will happen if she does actually have something in there, but we're keeping our fingers crossed she just needed a good flushing.

    I've got Banamine to keep her comfy, poor girl is so dang sweet but she's starting to get wary of me always needing to poke her with a needle :( I'm trying to keep her pampered though.

    This all brings me to a new set of questions though:
    1) Does anyone have any experience with mummified/eviscerated/monster fetuses?
    2) I do know this doe was bred once before last year. It was a handbreeding and she did not settle, and then the breeder needed to downsize the herd and thus she was offered for sale. Is it possible for a doe to be carrying a fetus like that and be asymptomatic (showing no symptoms)? And if so, why suddenly come up with an infection from breeding to another buck? Would it have caused an infection right from the get-go? I have heard stories of does that have healthy pregnancies but then all of a sudden when they kid, out comes a mummified kid with the rest of the healthy kids.

    I'm hoping all she needed was this flush (a dilute betadine mix). Gonna keep her on the regimen he told me to. Keeping my fingers crossed and praying hard!
     
  2. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Re: So what do y'all know about mummified/monster fetuses...

    I'm very glad that you were able to have a vet see her..., and I do think that the course of treatment should definatly help.
    I've only had one experience with a mummified kid... I hand breed so I knew my does due date and I also moniter them for kid movement, I had witnessed an very hard ram by another doe 6 weeks or so prior to Binkeys due date and thought nothing of it until she delivered as there was no blood or anything to indicate to me that something was wrong.
    Binkeys kid was moving at each of her belly rubs in the week she was due, however 2 days before she went into labor, I felt what was likened to a brick at the bottom of her belly, my heart sank when I bumped upwards and it fell like a thud against my hands....I knew the kid was dead and just prayed for her to be able to deliver safely.
    She went through all the normal labor activity and I had to pull and position this very stiff breach kid, his hocks were locked against her lower pelvis bones, I had to move each stiff leg up and outward and she pushed him out. His cord was totally detached from his belly. She cleaned out normally and mourned and searched for her kid...2 days later I found her standing with icky looking rusty brown colored ick hanging out and found a mummified 6 inch long, hairless but fully formed doe fetus. I started her on Pen G 2x a day as she cleaned out throughout the week. I do think that the hard ram she got killed the doeling and that the remains entangled the live buck kid and severed the cord leading to his death.
    I also believe that had I not been with her to unlock the dead kid, she would have died as there was no way she was going to push him out without help.

    I don't believe that your doe would have a dead kid inside her from a breeding prior to the one in March.... I do think that if she did settle and the kid died after it was too big to be reabsorbed, and if she's within the time frame of being due, this is whats caused her the signs she's had.
    During heat, the cervix is dilated slightly and will allow bad bacteria, if present, to enter the uterus, she may or may not have contracted an infection through breeeding.
    Continue her treatment and I hope that once she's recovered that she does have chance to be a mama....my Binkey went on and had a set of triplets as well as tewins after her ordeal.
     

  3. RedLotusNigerians

    RedLotusNigerians Member

    223
    Dec 13, 2011
    Re: So what do y'all know about mummified/monster fetuses...

    Oh boy, that makes me worry about a doe I have that's due to go to a new home soon =/ She somehow got her head trapped between the gate and the fence while I was out on errands. Came back and one of my bully does decided to go over and give her a few good wallops for now good reason. The trapped doe is preggers and due in November, I've got her sold to a really nice family. She's shown no signs of distress or anything, her belly isn't particularly big right now (makes me think she's only going to have one or two at most). Gah! So much stress these little critters give us. I think she was struck mostly on her back legs though, so hopefully no damage was done. I'm getting really sick of having three very distinct bullies in the herd, they might have to go int their own pens soon if they don't cool their jets. I'd feel horrible for the doe's buyers if she wound up having dead kids :( Add that to my list of worries.

    Thank you for sharing your story. I'm glad your doe pulled through alright and I would bet good money too that if you weren't there to help her, she'd have probably died. It's good to know that she recovered and had very good kiddings afterward! It's amazing how well the goaties can heal when given good care, and I think lots of TLC helps too :)
     
  4. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Re: So what do y'all know about mummified/monster fetuses...

    Alyssa... I think that having the vet back after the course of treatment with your doe would be beneficial, also...an x ray though expensive would at least show wether or not there is a "mass" that would need to be removed. TLC... is one way to give what they need, but having the heart to know that you truly helped in all ways possible is what makes matters that much more a happy ending.
     
  5. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    Massachusetts
    Re: So what do y'all know about mummified/monster fetuses...

    I've had dead kids and mimmified kids born, they are never fun, but they happen. All of my dead kids have had other live kids with them. I just yesturday had a doe kid out with a wonderful live kid and NO signs of anything wrong except her placenta wouldn't pass. I gave her oxytocin and still the placenta wouldn't pass. I had bumped her after kidding and put my fingers in to check for other kids and never felt a thing..... well around 11pm(she kidded around 2pm) I put my fingers in her to check what the hang up was. There I could feel, locked in her closing cervix, a dead kid. My heart dropped thinking I had missed a kid live kid, but once I felt around more I could feel bones with no muscle tone and the clean out was a nasty brown, so it had been dead a while. I had to work open the does cervix again and pull the kid, it was a job and a half to get the kid and placenta out. At the end of it all she is doing ok and doesn't act like she is having any issues but she was flushed and I have her on excenel for a week. The dead kid was mummified and I broke it's skull getting it out, it probably died around 3 months gestation as it had no hair. The cord was still attached to the placenta so I'm pretty sure he just had a defect.

    But anyways, the long and sort of it is that your doe should be ok and I would highly doubt she would have a mummified kid stuck in there. There was one very rare case of it in a human, but I have not heard of a dead kid being retained by a doe and never going into labor, now if she had a labor, had kids and some stuff got left behind, that can happen. But if if does only have a dead kid in there they will pass them. The shot of lute your vet gave should clean her out fine, but an x-ray would rule out any retained kids for sure. It sounds to me like she just has an infection and thats why she can't get bred.
     
  6. xymenah

    xymenah Member with a bahhh

    Jul 1, 2011
    Mount Olive, NC
    Re: So what do y'all know about mummified/monster fetuses...

    I can't add anything to this conversation but I wanted to ask if the vet was Austin Ayars? He's amazing. While he couldn't actually come to my house to help me when I was having kidding problems with Beep he talked me through everything and calmed me down. Which is a feat in itself to calm down a hysterically crying 17 year old with her first goat in labor that is not progressing properly and eventually a stuck kid. I called probably all the vets in my area and no one could help me. The only other vet I know of is an Equine vet in Prescott who works at PAH. I even talked to a goat farmer who raised goats for 20 years in my area and those are the only ones he even knew of in this state.
     
  7. RedLotusNigerians

    RedLotusNigerians Member

    223
    Dec 13, 2011
    Re: So what do y'all know about mummified/monster fetuses...

    Gosh I love this place... Love the sharing!!

    Thanks so much everyone :) I'll be working close with the vet to see if he thinks she'll need an x-ray in a few days. I checked on her tonight; she already looked like she felt better and when she squatted to urinate, nothing but clear liquid came out this time. No glop/blood! So I'm holding my breath the Lutalyse does its job, the betadine flush really helped cleaning up everything in there. I think since I watched it done, I'd be a little more confident trying a uterine flush if ever needed in the future, I've got the AI equipment (although he used this really long catheter thing). For some reason I was paranoid about the liquid going in but not coming out.

    @ xymenah -- No, it was Dr. Mark Fink DVM. I have heard of Ayars before though, I have a list of 'goat friendly' vets in the state (would be happy to share it with you!) and he's on it, I was going down the list when making the calls. Luckily the third time was the charm and it just so happened to be Fink :) Really nice guy, very laid back and calm and he knew what he was talking about. Plus he does emergency calls I think and he told me if I ever had questions to just give him a call. I'm relieved to have found a good goat vet! I'll keep Ayars in mind as a back-up, any vet that can handle a hysterical moment (and we all have them!) calmly is good in my book.
     
  8. xymenah

    xymenah Member with a bahhh

    Jul 1, 2011
    Mount Olive, NC
    Re: So what do y'all know about mummified/monster fetuses...

    That would be great if you could message that list to me. I really think we need to get a thread with a list of recommended goat friendly vets by state. I'm glad your doe is feeling better though. I sure hope I don't have to deal with anything like that.
     
  9. RedLotusNigerians

    RedLotusNigerians Member

    223
    Dec 13, 2011
    Re: So what do y'all know about mummified/monster fetuses...

    Sent you the list! :) At least I think I did, I clicked the tiny nearly-invisible 'email' button under your message, LOL!
     
  10. nicolemackenzie

    nicolemackenzie Well-Known Member

    Dec 27, 2014
    I know this is a REALLY old thread... But is OP or someone who knows still around?

    Did this doe have a retained kid? Recover? Go on to have healthy kids?