[Goat Tamer]

Hi Everybody! I am new here and love this forum. I currently have 8 LaMancha Dairy Goats (all does). I love them and hope to improve my herd by building a new large fence, and hopefully getting a Buck from Forest Pride. So I am building a 3 acre fence, and I will probably need to get a livestock dog. We have shot multiple coyotes that were running to the goat pen. I need a dog that won't bark at deer a 1/2 mile away, doesn't bark unless there is a threat, will be loving towards our children and doesn't try to jump the fence! I don't mind barking, I just don't want something that scares all the deer of my farm. Do any breeds tend to want to stick to there herdmates and don't bark all night. If not, I will have to look into a llama.

 

[ksalvagno]

One llama won't protect the herd. They will warn you with their alarm call but are no match for multiple dogs/coyotes.

 

[Goat Tamer]

So if a dog is the only option, do you have any advise on breeds and temperaments to choose from? They don't have to meet all those needs, they just can't attack kids, and jump the fence to attack UPS.😊

 

[jmarie]

We have coyotes too but secure fencing has been all that’s needed for us!

 

[Boer Mama]

I have a Great Pyrenees and an Akbash/ Pyrenees mix pup. Neither have been aggressive towards humans.
My GP holds a grudge against my dad and insists at barking at him but she just backs away.
The pup is new this year, but the GP has been here since my first kids arrived and I haven’t lost any goats to predation and we do have coyotes come in. I also don’t have a good fence so it’s all been on the LGD to keep them safe while they wander. Lol

 

[Goat Tamer]

We are building a 4 foot fence ( maybe an electric strand on top). It is not just for our goats. My chickens are getting killed by weasels, *****, and possums all the time. No matter how many I trap and shoot, the chickens just keep dying! I heard a couple times that Pyrenees will bark all night. I also heard that they will jump the fence to roam. Is that your case?

 

[Goat Tamer]

That's weird. Why did it bleep out the word when it was the the short version of Racoon?🤔

 

[Boer Mama]

My GP does bark at night… and I have a little 30# border collie who showed up and she thinks she’s something fierce and will protect us all so she’s been joining in too 😆
If you train your LGD to the hot fence when young, hopefully they will respect it.
As mentioned, I don’t really have hood fencing so my situation is a little different.
I think I saw recently on a thread on here, that the Karakachan breed will eliminate the threat rather than barking to set boundaries and encourage the predators to search elsewhere.

 

[Goat Tamer]

My GP does bark at night… and I have a little 30# border collie who showed up and she thinks she’s something fierce and will protect us all so she’s been joining in too 😆
If you train your LGD to the hot fence when young, hopefully they will respect it.
As mentioned, I don’t really have hood fencing so my situation is a little different.
I think I saw recently on a thread on here, that the Karakachan breed will eliminate the threat rather than barking to set boundaries and encourage the predators to search elsewhere.

The latest Karakachans I saw for sale were $800 each. Again, I don't forbid barking, I just don't want a dog that will bark at every little thing out there. Does anybody have any experience with Anatolian Shepherds?

 

[Boer Mama]

@Moers kiko boars as some really good anotolians 😊
I’d actually have liked them due to shorter hair 😆
We were gifted ours by a sheep rancher friend so I don’t want to look a gift horse in the mouth… and we’ve been lucky with them so far so can’t complain!

 

[FizzyGoats]

I grew up with Great Pyrenees, wonderful, loving guardians. I now have a half GP/ half Komondor that is amazing. He is a discerning barker and could easily jump our fence and chooses not to. If he barks, something is out there. He won’t be lured away and charges when he should and holds his ground when he feels charging leaves the goats vulnerable. I also have a Karakachan pup because the breed is supposed to have a lot of the wonderful attributes my GP/Kom mix has. A lot of it comes down to the individual dog rather than the specific breed though, and training makes a big difference too. Start looking for breeders around you that have dogs that work the way you want yours to work. You may want to start with more mature dogs or pups. That will depend on how urgent your need for protection is. Our neighbor just had his dog (Australian cattle dog) attacked by a coyote. Our property is like a highway for coyotes and deer. People around us are constantly having to shoot coyotes and we haven’t had to. I think we’d have a hard time keeping small livestock here without our dogs.

 

[Boer Mama]

I also just remembered you mentioning deer and one afternoon when I came out of the barn, I saw my GP running out to chase a coyote that was on the hillside… there were 2 deer by the ditch eating sunflower’s maybe 75-100’ away from the coyote. My GP ran out between the 2 and chased the coyote, the deer never even flinched.
So they are probably used to her running the coyotes off and leaving them alone.
she’d probably even be willing to protect them along with her goats 😂

 

[jmarie]

I think your fence plan sounds good. We have 4 foot goat fencing and a strand of barb above that. I like the deer to stay out too, and the extra height added with the barbed wire seems to help with that as well. And we have chicken wire around the pasture the chickens are in. Are the other critters attacking your chickens in the daytime or at night? Do you lock your chickens in the coop at night? We have to here or we end up with problems. And I’m sure not to leave any dog or cat food out after dark either, it attracts all kinds of woodland creatures. All deer feeders and such are also far from our pastures. Rabbits can be an issue too, at least they are for us. They dig under the fences to live in the pastures which only makes it easier for other animals to get under the fences. So I have to run a pretty tight ship lol the rabbits must go too.. not to mention they can draw in foxes and other predators as well, possibly coyotes. And foxes can fit through some pretty small holes. We check the fence on a regular basis for any issues and we hunt everything we have to. We pay special attention to the seasons when young are being kicked out on their own, young coyotes/foxes are more likely to look for easy meals. The fencing works well for us as long as we don’t slack on it. It needs regular maintenance just like a dog does. The fences definitely don’t bark tho

Also, coyotes typically really don’t like human activity. We see them, we hear them, we know they even visit our yard sometimes, but they haven’t pushed it with us before. Just them being around doesn’t necessarily mean they’re a threat, only if they’re showing aggression and pushing their limits. If you think you’re dealing with an aggressive bunch, a guardian may be the best choice too, along with the fence. You’ll have to check me on this, but I believe there’s research shown that hunting coyotes often makes them worse. They’re pretty organized and will only breed more if they feel their numbers are dwindling. Yikes.. It may also make them more aggressive as the order of their pack is altered when they lose members.

On another note, I’ve heard of people using donkeys for livestock guardians too. Anyone know about that?

 

[Jessica84]

Oh I would not do a donkey. Some have had good luck with them but I have seen and heard horror stories of when babies hit the ground them seeing them as a danger and attack and kill. My neighbor lost half his calf crop to a donkey he got when he had a dog issue.

 

[Goat Tamer]

I think your fence plan sounds good. We have 4 foot goat fencing and a strand of barb above that. I like the deer to stay out too, and the extra height added with the barbed wire seems to help with that as well. And we have chicken wire around the pasture the chickens are in. Are the other critters attacking your chickens in the daytime or at night? Do you lock your chickens in the coop at night? We have to here or we end up with problems. And I’m sure not to leave any dog or cat food out after dark either, it attracts all kinds of woodland creatures. All deer feeders and such are also far from our pastures. Rabbits can be an issue too, at least they are for us. They dig under the fences to live in the pastures which only makes it easier for other animals to get under the fences. So I have to run a pretty tight ship lol the rabbits must go too.. not to mention they can draw in foxes and other predators as well, possibly coyotes. And foxes can fit through some pretty small holes. We check the fence on a regular basis for any issues and we hunt everything we have to. We pay special attention to the seasons when young are being kicked out on their own, young coyotes/foxes are more likely to look for easy meals. The fencing works well for us as long as we don’t slack on it. It needs regular maintenance just like a dog does. The fences definitely don’t bark tho

Also, coyotes typically really don’t like human activity. We see them, we hear them, we know they even visit our yard sometimes, but they haven’t pushed it with us before. Just them being around doesn’t necessarily mean they’re a threat, only if they’re showing aggression and pushing their limits. If you think you’re dealing with an aggressive bunch, a guardian may be the best choice too, along with the fence. You’ll have to check me on this, but I believe there’s research shown that hunting coyotes often makes them worse. They’re pretty organized and will only breed more if they feel their numbers are dwindling. Yikes.. It may also make them more aggressive as the order of their pack is altered when they lose members.

On another note, I’ve heard of people using donkeys for livestock guardians too. Anyone know about that?

We would just go along with the fence idea, but it is in the woods very far from our house. We have invested thousands of dollars into our goat business. If my whole herd got wiped out, then I don't know what I would do! Probably lose it. One of my friends got her egg business of 50+ specially bred chickens wiped out by a pack of coyotes. She was specially breeding for 20 years! 😭😭 If we did train a livestock dog, then that means no predator problems for 8 plus years! That is why I am trying to research preferred breeds.

 

[Goat Tamer]

Also, the coyotes are so populated here, that they have attacked our chickens in the middle of the day. That was 50 yards from our house. We lock up the chickens at night, but the bobcats have been taking them out during the day too!

 

[ksalvagno]

One dog can't fight a pack of coyotes. The hot wire will really help. Then between barking and hot wire should be better protection.

 

[Isaiah 11 goats]

If you have that much of a threat, a pair of adult lgds would be ideal. Pricey due to the work put into them, but well worth the instant protection.

 

[jmarie]

We would just go along with the fence idea, but it is in the woods very far from our house. We have invested thousands of dollars into our goat business. If my whole herd got wiped out, then I don't know what I would do! Probably lose it. One of my friends got her egg business of 50+ specially bred chickens wiped out by a pack of coyotes. She was specially breeding for 20 years! If we did train a livestock dog, then that means no predator problems for 8 plus years! That is why I am trying to research preferred breeds.

Understood, that answers my question on the aggression then. I’m sorry, I was under the impression you were building a new fence, so that’s why I shared how we built and utilize ours. I thought you were having trouble with animals getting into your existing fence currently, that’s why I was suggesting how to cut down on that traffic. And you also expressed concern about a dog barking all night. You wanted a llama if so. I’m not saying not to get a LGD and only use fencing, sorry if it came across that way. I did say depending on your situation you may be better off with both. Still pay special attention to your fence, just because you have a dog or 2, you shouldn’t put it all on them to defend you from high numbers of coyotes if they’re that bad. They need some protection too. I think it’s good you’re doing this research. Good luck ️

 

[Goat Tamer]

Thank you guys. We are making the fence as predator-proof as possible. We have also seen 2 mountain lions near our farm. 😬 I will maybe start of with one Anatolian Shepard. (I would prefer Abash, Karakachans, or Maremma, but those are pretty rare around here) Once the first puppy is trained and older, then I might move on to a GP puppy. Hopefully the older dog will train the puppy not to chase chickens or other mischief.