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Solutions??

2K views 59 replies 15 participants last post by  Penguingirl 
#1 ·
Hi Everybody! I am new here and love this forum. I currently have 8 LaMancha Dairy Goats (all does). I love them and hope to improve my herd by building a new large fence, and hopefully getting a Buck from Forest Pride. So I am building a 3 acre fence, and I will probably need to get a livestock dog. We have shot multiple coyotes that were running to the goat pen. I need a dog that won't bark at deer a 1/2 mile away, doesn't bark unless there is a threat, will be loving towards our children and doesn't try to jump the fence! I don't mind barking, I just don't want something that scares all the deer of my farm. Do any breeds tend to want to stick to there herdmates and don't bark all night. If not, I will have to look into a llama.
 
#5 ·
I have a Great Pyrenees and an Akbash/ Pyrenees mix pup. Neither have been aggressive towards humans.
My GP holds a grudge against my dad and insists at barking at him but she just backs away.
The pup is new this year, but the GP has been here since my first kids arrived and I haven’t lost any goats to predation and we do have coyotes come in. I also don’t have a good fence so it’s all been on the LGD to keep them safe while they wander. Lol
 
#6 · (Edited)
We are building a 4 foot fence ( maybe an electric strand on top). It is not just for our goats. My chickens are getting killed by weasels, *****, and possums all the time. No matter how many I trap and shoot, the chickens just keep dying! I heard a couple times that Pyrenees will bark all night. I also heard that they will jump the fence to roam. Is that your case?
 
#48 ·
We are building a 4 foot fence ( maybe an electric strand on top). It is not just for our goats. My chickens are getting killed by weasels, *, and possums all the time. No matter how many I trap and shoot, the chickens just keep dying! I heard a couple times that Pyrenees will bark all night. I also heard that they will jump the fence to roam. Is that your case?
So make a taller fence. I guarantee you a coyote can jump that. I have a 6 1/2 ft fence and mine are locked in there shelter at night. That is the only time we see them.
I'm sorry you're having such a hard time with nasty time with the critters .
 
#8 ·
My GP does bark at night… and I have a little 30# border collie who showed up and she thinks she’s something fierce and will protect us all so she’s been joining in too 😆
If you train your LGD to the hot fence when young, hopefully they will respect it.
As mentioned, I don’t really have hood fencing so my situation is a little different.
I think I saw recently on a thread on here, that the Karakachan breed will eliminate the threat rather than barking to set boundaries and encourage the predators to search elsewhere.
 
#11 ·
I grew up with Great Pyrenees, wonderful, loving guardians. I now have a half GP/ half Komondor that is amazing. He is a discerning barker and could easily jump our fence and chooses not to. If he barks, something is out there. He won’t be lured away and charges when he should and holds his ground when he feels charging leaves the goats vulnerable. I also have a Karakachan pup because the breed is supposed to have a lot of the wonderful attributes my GP/Kom mix has. A lot of it comes down to the individual dog rather than the specific breed though, and training makes a big difference too. Start looking for breeders around you that have dogs that work the way you want yours to work. You may want to start with more mature dogs or pups. That will depend on how urgent your need for protection is. Our neighbor just had his dog (Australian cattle dog) attacked by a coyote. Our property is like a highway for coyotes and deer. People around us are constantly having to shoot coyotes and we haven’t had to. I think we’d have a hard time keeping small livestock here without our dogs.
 
#12 ·
I also just remembered you mentioning deer and one afternoon when I came out of the barn, I saw my GP running out to chase a coyote that was on the hillside… there were 2 deer by the ditch eating sunflower’s maybe 75-100’ away from the coyote. My GP ran out between the 2 and chased the coyote, the deer never even flinched.
So they are probably used to her running the coyotes off and leaving them alone.
she’d probably even be willing to protect them along with her goats 😂
 
#13 ·
I think your fence plan sounds good. We have 4 foot goat fencing and a strand of barb above that. I like the deer to stay out too, and the extra height added with the barbed wire seems to help with that as well. And we have chicken wire around the pasture the chickens are in. Are the other critters attacking your chickens in the daytime or at night? Do you lock your chickens in the coop at night? We have to here or we end up with problems. And I’m sure not to leave any dog or cat food out after dark either, it attracts all kinds of woodland creatures. All deer feeders and such are also far from our pastures. Rabbits can be an issue too, at least they are for us. They dig under the fences to live in the pastures which only makes it easier for other animals to get under the fences. So I have to run a pretty tight ship lol the rabbits must go too.. not to mention they can draw in foxes and other predators as well, possibly coyotes. And foxes can fit through some pretty small holes. We check the fence on a regular basis for any issues and we hunt everything we have to. We pay special attention to the seasons when young are being kicked out on their own, young coyotes/foxes are more likely to look for easy meals. The fencing works well for us as long as we don’t slack on it. It needs regular maintenance just like a dog does. The fences definitely don’t bark tho[emoji13]

Also, coyotes typically really don’t like human activity. We see them, we hear them, we know they even visit our yard sometimes, but they haven’t pushed it with us before. Just them being around doesn’t necessarily mean they’re a threat, only if they’re showing aggression and pushing their limits. If you think you’re dealing with an aggressive bunch, a guardian may be the best choice too, along with the fence. You’ll have to check me on this, but I believe there’s research shown that hunting coyotes often makes them worse. They’re pretty organized and will only breed more if they feel their numbers are dwindling. Yikes.. It may also make them more aggressive as the order of their pack is altered when they lose members.

On another note, I’ve heard of people using donkeys for livestock guardians too. Anyone know about that?
 
#15 ·
I think your fence plan sounds good. We have 4 foot goat fencing and a strand of barb above that. I like the deer to stay out too, and the extra height added with the barbed wire seems to help with that as well. And we have chicken wire around the pasture the chickens are in. Are the other critters attacking your chickens in the daytime or at night? Do you lock your chickens in the coop at night? We have to here or we end up with problems. And I’m sure not to leave any dog or cat food out after dark either, it attracts all kinds of woodland creatures. All deer feeders and such are also far from our pastures. Rabbits can be an issue too, at least they are for us. They dig under the fences to live in the pastures which only makes it easier for other animals to get under the fences. So I have to run a pretty tight ship lol the rabbits must go too.. not to mention they can draw in foxes and other predators as well, possibly coyotes. And foxes can fit through some pretty small holes. We check the fence on a regular basis for any issues and we hunt everything we have to. We pay special attention to the seasons when young are being kicked out on their own, young coyotes/foxes are more likely to look for easy meals. The fencing works well for us as long as we don’t slack on it. It needs regular maintenance just like a dog does. The fences definitely don’t bark tho[emoji13]

Also, coyotes typically really don’t like human activity. We see them, we hear them, we know they even visit our yard sometimes, but they haven’t pushed it with us before. Just them being around doesn’t necessarily mean they’re a threat, only if they’re showing aggression and pushing their limits. If you think you’re dealing with an aggressive bunch, a guardian may be the best choice too, along with the fence. You’ll have to check me on this, but I believe there’s research shown that hunting coyotes often makes them worse. They’re pretty organized and will only breed more if they feel their numbers are dwindling. Yikes.. It may also make them more aggressive as the order of their pack is altered when they lose members.

On another note, I’ve heard of people using donkeys for livestock guardians too. Anyone know about that?
We would just go along with the fence idea, but it is in the woods very far from our house. We have invested thousands of dollars into our goat business. If my whole herd got wiped out, then I don't know what I would do! Probably lose it. One of my friends got her egg business of 50+ specially bred chickens wiped out by a pack of coyotes. She was specially breeding for 20 years! 😭😭 If we did train a livestock dog, then that means no predator problems for 8 plus years! That is why I am trying to research preferred breeds.
 
#19 ·
We would just go along with the fence idea, but it is in the woods very far from our house. We have invested thousands of dollars into our goat business. If my whole herd got wiped out, then I don't know what I would do! Probably lose it. One of my friends got her egg business of 50+ specially bred chickens wiped out by a pack of coyotes. She was specially breeding for 20 years! [emoji24][emoji24] If we did train a livestock dog, then that means no predator problems for 8 plus years! That is why I am trying to research preferred breeds.
Understood, that answers my question on the aggression then. I’m sorry, I was under the impression you were building a new fence, so that’s why I shared how we built and utilize ours. I thought you were having trouble with animals getting into your existing fence currently, that’s why I was suggesting how to cut down on that traffic. And you also expressed concern about a dog barking all night. You wanted a llama if so. I’m not saying not to get a LGD and only use fencing, sorry if it came across that way. I did say depending on your situation you may be better off with both. Still pay special attention to your fence, just because you have a dog or 2, you shouldn’t put it all on them to defend you from high numbers of coyotes if they’re that bad. They need some protection too. I think it’s good you’re doing this research. Good luck [emoji111]️
 
#20 ·
Thank you guys. We are making the fence as predator-proof as possible. We have also seen 2 mountain lions near our farm. 😬 I will maybe start of with one Anatolian Shepard. (I would prefer Abash, Karakachans, or Maremma, but those are pretty rare around here) Once the first puppy is trained and older, then I might move on to a GP puppy. Hopefully the older dog will train the puppy not to chase chickens or other mischief.
 
#23 ·
As far as LGDs are concerned, not any of them are quiet. Their bark can reach out & scare predators. Once the scent of the LGD is on your property, that helps lessen the threat of attack. My LGDs dont bother the deer. But they will kill a coyote. My female barks more than my male. I have Anatolian Shepherds. I wont own a Pyrenees or anythin bred to them. Theh dont stay home. My Savaski has chased several off. So I would not reccomend them unless you own hundreds of acres. I am looking into Anatolian, Karacacha mixes. They are supposed to be more protective. I have chickens too, So I have to work with mine to leave those running drumsticks along. I mean who doesnt love wings n things ,right? Their are all kinds of LGD rescues that are more than happy to talk with you and help any way they can.
 
#24 ·
Thank you for your answer! I will probably not get a GP. One time a Pyrenees came to our farm and didn't chase chickens or anything, it was very sweet and loving. But why would a dog be at our farm? Because it roamed from his farm. So we won't get one. Anatolians are a good "Solution".

So if I get one and I socialize him, and train him, and feed him. Do I need to do anything else that is major?
 
#25 ·
I was very little hands on with my 2. I do think training them to command "drop it" is important. They do like helping me do fence chores, and somehow my fence pliers get in their mouths!🤷‍♀️ So "drop it" is nice. Or hoof snips, anything they can carry off to help!😁
Im very happy with mine. Just find a breed that works for you ,and make that connection.
 
#26 ·
My Akbash pup will run off with anything from my gloves, the roll of duct tape to the rope I use to tie the gate to the pen 😆
I really haven’t had to train either. Luna was 5 months old when we got her and grew up with a large herd of sheep w/ working parents. And she’s been keeping the pup trained up. He’s doing good even if my house dog distracts him sometimes. Lol
 
#31 ·
Congratulations on your new dog. What made you change your mind about GPs? Can't wait to see pictures! Are you getting a puppy or a grown dog?

We're about to have our first kidding season (I hope 🤞), and I'm starting to wonder if we will need a LGD in the future. I love dogs but don't have any experience with guardian breeds and have some of the same reservations you do. I haven't actually seen evidence of predators anywhere near our property (maybe our German Shepherd's scent help keeps them away?) though I know we have coyotes in the area.

Looking forward to hearing how your experience goes!
 
#30 ·
One time, I think year before last, I saw a coyote coming up to where the goats were out grazing. He got within about 40’ before the goats finally alerted and Luna realized something was up.
She had been laying down napping upwind so I was stressing about why she wasn’t getting after him yet (I’m sure she’d had a busy night).
anyway, once she knew he was there she took off after him and I thought for sure the kids and I were gonna see blood. She bowled him over and warned him away from her goats and told him to tell his friends to stay away but let him go 😅
 
#36 ·
We got a Karakachan Puppy this summer because we have very similar requirements as you.

Our farm is in a valley and I didn't want a dog to bark at anything and everything. When visiting a farm the spring for a goat walk we learned about the farmers LGDs. They used a combination of Karakachans and Komondors to protect the multiple herds of goats, sheep, chickens and horses. We have lots of coyotes, bobcats and smaller predators and I was impressed with how they said their Karakachans protect their herds.

I was told that the Karakachan is considered a hard LGD, they will bark to tell a predator to stop approaching but if the predator continues to come closer they go into stealth mode and eliminate the threat. They stick close to the herd, which was important to us and don't challenge fences. When walking the pasture with our pup (Birger) he will alert us to deer in the woods by staring but never barks at them. He just watches them, loses interest and goes about his business.

GPs on the other hand are a soft LGD and use their size and bark to intimidate the predators. Birger is a gentle giant. He has the size to intimidate, at 9 months he is easily #90-#100, and still growing. He is fast and agile and loves his animals.

The breeder picked him out for us after talking with us about our needs and plans. He is not the puppy I would have chosen but he is the perfect dog for us. I think communication with the breeder about your needs wants and expectations is really important.
 
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