Super frustrated

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by Epona142, Mar 13, 2010.

  1. Epona142

    Epona142 The farm that Hope began

    May 25, 2008
    Madisonville, TX
    Isis is up and down, and now America is seeming a little lethargic and unhappy.

    America is almost the exact same age as Isis.

    I've set up a kennel that only the little goats can get into and put hay in it, and let the little ones out for a while to forage.

    I've dewormed with Ivermectin and another that slips my mind for a moment. Treated for coccidosis. Isis and America have been bolused with copper.

    I hit Isis with everything I had, and she seems to get better and then if I take her outside, she almost immediately becomes lethargic and unhappy looking again.

    I think they seem thin, they are thinner than Hope's boys and the bottle baby. It's hard to tell on Isis because of her THICK cotton-type coat, but America definitely seems thin.

    I don't understand it, there's free choice hay out there ALL of the time. I've SEEN them both eating it. I see all the goats eating it.

    Even the adult goats are looking a bit thinner than usual, but we do have warm weather now and it might be because their coats aren't poofed out.

    They cry all day like they're hungry, but there's hay RIGHT there. It's the same thing they've always eaten. They eat it and it smells/feels/even tastes right.

    They have minerals. They have clean water I change every day.

    I am so overly frustrated I can't even begin to describe it. Why are the little ones so weak? What am I doing wrong? If I lose these two I don't know what I'll do. I don't know how much more frustration and losses I can take.

    What am I doing wrong?
     
  2. AlaskaBoers

    AlaskaBoers New Member

    May 6, 2008
    Wasilla Alaska
    sounds like you're doing a great job, but not sure why everything isnt working for ya... how do their lids look? temps?
     

  3. Epona142

    Epona142 The farm that Hope began

    May 25, 2008
    Madisonville, TX
    Temps are normal, in the 101-102 range. Lids look good, salmon pink.

    I feel like beating my head against the wall and just crying and giving up.
     
  4. AlaskaBoers

    AlaskaBoers New Member

    May 6, 2008
    Wasilla Alaska
    i think we all have those give up moments :hug:

    hmmm, have you tried fortified vitamin b shots? that would stimulate appetite...
     
  5. Epona142

    Epona142 The farm that Hope began

    May 25, 2008
    Madisonville, TX
    Yes, I gave it to Isis and then to America today. They both seem willing to eat.
     
  6. AlaskaBoers

    AlaskaBoers New Member

    May 6, 2008
    Wasilla Alaska
    how about weather changes ? that would throw a goat off...
     
  7. Epona142

    Epona142 The farm that Hope began

    May 25, 2008
    Madisonville, TX
    Yes, we have had several weather changes, going from extreme to extreme. It was mentioned in the other thread.

    I don't know what else to do. I'm about to bring them both inside...I can handle goat pellets in my bathroom until they are 100%..
     
  8. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    :hug:

    Is there any way... that the goats can walk ...pee or poo on the hay? If so...that might be why... they are not eating alot of it....

    How are their gums in color?

    Have you treated for tape worms?

    I would recommend ...getting a fecal done...and see if there are any critters that are there... that you might be missing.... Also sometimes...the worms ect ...may becoming immuned to the wormers ect.... :hug:
     
  9. crocee

    crocee New Member

    Jul 25, 2008
    Northeast Arkansas
    It may be unlikely but I am wondering if its copper toxicity. Lethargy is one of the main symptoms. Some of the energy drenched used do have copper in them and since they have been bolused it could be too much. Just an idea and we don't normally think in cases of too much since usually its too little.
    http://www.kinne.net/cu-tox.htm
     
  10. Epona142

    Epona142 The farm that Hope began

    May 25, 2008
    Madisonville, TX
    The hay is fed in feeders, they shouldn't be able to foul it, and its within reach of the younger ones.

    I measured very carefully when I bolused them, probably gave them a little less than they should have gotten. I will look into that though
     
  11. DebMc

    DebMc Member

    845
    Dec 10, 2009
    I'm so sorry to hear Isis' condition continues to yo-yo, and now America, too?

    I know next to nothing about goat illnesses but a couple things come to mind. That Isis gets better indoors only to regress upon going back out would suggest that something outdoors might be to blame, an environmental toxin perhaps?

    Toxic vegetation? Maybe some poisonous plants have been sprouting up in sync w/the warmer weather. Or some sort of fungus in the soil. If you have any new weed growth, you might want to identify the species and check for toxicity to goats.

    Water - are you on a well or municipal supply? If you're on a private well, have you had your water tested for impurities? I know here where we live, arsenic is a problem in some areas.

    Soil - previous land use? Soil can become contaminated from previous uses such as farming (pesticides, synthetic fertilizers) and industrial processes and those toxins can persist in the ground for decades. Some even break down into more toxic compounds. It isn't going to help now but down the road as time permits, if nothing else turns up, you might want to research the historical use of your property.

    Human children, I know, are more susceptible to environmental toxins by virtue of behaviors and habits that put them in closer contact. They also take in more air, water and food pound for pound than adults. I would imagine the same goes for goat kids.

    Other than probiotics, I have no other suggestions to offer. Unless there's an equivalent to biosponges for goats? Something that acts like a sponge and sops up toxins in the gut? Anyone know?

    I wish there were something I could do to help 'ya. Hang in there! You'll eventually get it figured out, hopefully sooner than later.

    Deb Mc
     
  12. Epona142

    Epona142 The farm that Hope began

    May 25, 2008
    Madisonville, TX
    The pen they are in doesn't have much left in vegetation, just some grass. Otherwise we don't have any plants I've noticed that are toxic, I've looked. None of the others seem affected other than America so far.

    The water is city water.

    I will keep the property idea in mind.

    I think activated charcoal is similar to what you're thinking of. I can give them both a little and see if it helps. I don't think it will hurt.

    I'm just so puzzled and overwhelmed with these issues. Sigh.
     
  13. DebMc

    DebMc Member

    845
    Dec 10, 2009
    That might also help if there is any bacterial or yeast-like infection present. Sometimes those infections can produce toxins and if that's the case, the charcoal should take care of it.

    :rose: Hang in there.

    Deb Mc
     
  14. myfainters

    myfainters New Member

    Oct 29, 2009
    Lancaster, CA
    What is the age of these kids?
     
  15. myfainters

    myfainters New Member

    Oct 29, 2009
    Lancaster, CA
    If you are worried about a mineral deficiency or overload... you can send in a blood sample to the lab to have that checked.

    I know these kids are pretty young so defiency or overload just doesn't seem as likely to me..... however,

    One symptom that you mentioned really, REALLY stands out.... eating but all getting thinner... if you have had fecals done and don't have an overload of worms or cocci you may want to get some blood work done on your adults (Johnes)

    Though... I'm hesitant to think it would be that either since these kids are so young.............
     
  16. Epona142

    Epona142 The farm that Hope began

    May 25, 2008
    Madisonville, TX
    They were both born in November, mid November I believe.

    Here they are, looking at me and wondering why they are being treated to indoor accommodations.

    [​IMG]

    Don't mind the mess please. Once again they both seem completely normal, eating hay and making a mess in my bathroom. I may keep them in for several days until I can find out what is going on.

    ETA: I had them all tested for Johnes when Hallie (the rescue doe) came home (the adults anyways) and came back negative. All the kids who have come in since then came from tested herds as well.
     
  17. cdtrum

    cdtrum New Member

    Aug 25, 2008
    Northern Indiana
    I think I would have fecals ran.....I know that Ivermectin is not working well in some areas, I have had to give into using Cydectin.
     
  18. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    I agree with ....Denise ... worms can get immuned to wormers....



    They are adorable... :greengrin: :love:
     
  19. Epona142

    Epona142 The farm that Hope began

    May 25, 2008
    Madisonville, TX
    Yes I plan on it, running fecals I mean. Of course its too late today and the vet is closed tomorrow though. Blah.

    They're still doing well, but I am too afraid to put them back outside to fend for themselves, so to speak.

    The other goats are chewing cud and napping, or eating at the hay feeder.

    Thanks Toth, I'm sure you can see why I am very attached to them.
     
  20. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    as long as they are doign well inside do keep them inside till you can get a fecal to the vet or you can get them to the vet.

    its very puzzling and I understand your frustration -- been there with my goats and coughing last year! :GAAH: