The milk/meat disconnect

Discussion in 'Goat Management' started by goathiker, Feb 16, 2020.

  1. goathiker

    goathiker I'm watching you Staff Member Supporting Member

    This is something I've tried to explore in the past. So much difference between the breeds native to different areas.
    After the years of watching, it seems that Boer goats get UC and toxemia, in high amounts. Dairy goats get polio and clostridium in high amounts.
    I will say that dairy breeders seem to be less likely to vaccinate their animals.

    Feed seems to be the biggest thing.
    African goats need a 1.5 to 2/1 ratio
    Dairy goats need a 2 to 4/1 ratio ca/ph

    Discussion?
     
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  2. jschies

    jschies Well-Known Member

    Aug 14, 2014
    I have Boers. We vaccinate and feed 2 parts commercial goat feed to 1 part alfalfa pellets. Over 12 years we have had polio once, listeriosis once, fatal urinary calculi 3 times (before we fed alfalfa pellets), and one time we had a heavy bred doe that had tender feet that we gave calcium to. However, we have stillborns and lose a few young ones to worms every year. It is very wet here.

    Do those numbers fit your theory? At the most, we had 12 does bred at a time. We didn't breed any this year. We sold our bucks and this summer, we are going on vacation with the kids and grandkids!
     

  3. Damfino

    Damfino Well-Known Member

    Dec 29, 2013
    Right behind you
    How do you think Nubians fit in, since they are a dairy breed that originates from Africa, India, and the middle east?
     
  4. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Since the year 2000 with the boers, I have had one case of Polio, but that was due to sepsis and having to give high doses of antibiotics, which triggered Polio.
    Have had 1 case of pregnancy toxemia, being my fault by not feeding enough alfalfa hay, that is it. No UC, knock on wood.

    We give CD&T vaccines.

    I have had nubian/boer crosses for a few years, starting out and no issues as mentioned above ect.
     
  5. CountyLineAcres

    CountyLineAcres Well-Known Member

    Jan 22, 2014
    Mineral Ridge, Ohio
    Personally, I think a big reason why a lot of boers are more prone to toxemia is not the breed itself but the high number of people incorrectly feeding them. I see more overweight boers than I do dairy. That’s what sells in the show ring, so I think it’s a contributing factor.

    Since first owning Boer goats in 2013, we’ve had only had one case of toxemia, no UC, and 4 cases of polio (none since 2017).
     
  6. ksalvagno

    ksalvagno Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    I find it to be very interesting that dairy goats need a higher calcium to phosphorus ratio in feed. Is it just where they came from or their purpose or both?
     
  7. Sfgwife

    Sfgwife Well-Known Member

    Feb 17, 2018
    North Cakalaki

    I think the dairy need the more cal/phos. Because of the milk making. I give alfalfa pellet every day but notice an increase in milk when i have alfalfa hay... and that is given mostly only in my milk room. She noms when i am feeding everyone else and then when i am done milking and she is down while i do water, hay and pick up turk feed. But i have also noticed that when i have alfafla hay she eats more of her grain grain on the stand vs more alfalfa pellet.... crickie has a divided feeder and she picks which she wants to eat. So all of this tells me that her being in milk... her body almost craves that calcium. And it makes sense when you think of what milk is.

    For the clostrid... i wonder if the dairy get it more often because of the demand the does supply gives so freely to the kid. Where as on a boer they make enough milk to just feed the kids and keep them growing good. Plus dairy kids do not seem to have an off switch of i am miserable full vs comfortable full.
     
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  8. goathiker

    goathiker I'm watching you Staff Member Supporting Member

    Dairy goats also have a heavier bone structure and need calcium phosphorus blocks to build it.

    Kikos now... I'm not sure that I've ever seen a sick kiko on here.

    Nubian goats have been around a long time and have lost a lot of their multipurpose value through breeding. I would think that the old original type would have had needs more like a Boer type.
     
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  9. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Dairy breeds make more milk per volume and need more Calcium, than boers do.
     
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  10. SalteyLove

    SalteyLove Well-Known Member

    Jun 18, 2011
    New England
    I've heard/read Boers require more copper as well, I'm not sure of that's true.

    I've had Boers, a few crosses, and two Kikos for around ten years and never had a case of polio, Listeriosis, milk fever or urinary calculi. I've had one deadly case of Toxemia is a starved pregnant rescue doe. However, I don't run show lines of Boer and I don't feed show rations.
     
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  11. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    For my boers, I find the paints and solids need more copper, than the traditional boer, strange, but it happens to them more.
     
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  12. CountyLineAcres

    CountyLineAcres Well-Known Member

    Jan 22, 2014
    Mineral Ridge, Ohio
    I agree with Pam! Our solid red boers need a lot more copper.
     
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  13. SalteyLove

    SalteyLove Well-Known Member

    Jun 18, 2011
    New England
    Do you think it's that they need more, or that it's just more apparent when they do?
     
  14. CountyLineAcres

    CountyLineAcres Well-Known Member

    Jan 22, 2014
    Mineral Ridge, Ohio
    I think it could just be more apparent. Biggest sign is a rough coat, and it’s so easy to spot on red vs white or black.

    For the black boers, I can easily spot when they start getting a red tinge.
     
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  15. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Yep, or they get fishtails.
     
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