The rest of the tests came in and it's not good

Discussion in 'Goat Frenzy' started by Kfin, Jan 8, 2011.

  1. Kfin

    Kfin New Member

    Jun 23, 2010
    Canyon, TX
    So I got the cae results back. And gambit is negative but all three of my girls are posative :sigh: I don't know what to do now.

    I love mu girls but I wanted a clean herd and this is not a good start.

    I have no clue how to bottle raise the babies and I thought for sure my girls would be negative since their breeder bottle raises all her kids. I am at a loss! Any suggestions? If I do bottle raise the kids on a cae prevention does that mean they will be negative? And how do you bottle raise? What to do for colostrum and how often do you feed?

    Or would it be better to just sell mu girls and start o er. I am just sick about this :sigh: :help:
  2. jduwall

    jduwall New Member

    Aug 7, 2009
    so sorry...are you sure the lab got it right? I had a false positive and almost sold them..Had them retested thru Waddle (sp?) and they were neg...

    Bottle feeding can be fun though....

    my prayers are with you..... :hug:

  3. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    So sorry you are dealing with this :hug:
    Get a second test done for CAE thru WADDL....They are one of the best labs and though there is a 1 time accession fee of $10 due to being out of state, the test they use is called an Elisa and is fairly accurate at detecting antibodies....also, are all your does over 6 months old? Sometimes age will play a factor in results..before you make any hasty decisions, get a 2nd opinion.

    CAE does can still produce milk for humans, there is no health issues with you using their milk, pulling kids and feeding heat treated colostrum and raising them on pastuerized milk from your does is an option...and a decision on your part. Everyone is different in how they do things, it's how it would work for you that matters :hug:
  4. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    false positives are rare these days but they do happen.

    You can retest through WADDL if you want to be certain. (Liz Bio tracking does use the Elisa test too)

    Now the breeder bottle feeds but does she heat treat the milk before feeding it to the kids? I know for a couple years I bottle fed just for various reasons but I had no clue about CAE at the time so I didnt bottle feed for that reason and I just milked the does and fed that milk right to the kids with out heat treating. So maybe thats what this breeder did? I dont know for sure but you can ask
  5. KW Farms

    KW Farms Moderator Supporting Member

    Jun 21, 2008
    Wapato, WA
    Gosh, I am so sorry. Be sure to have it tested again, but make sure it's with WADDL...they are the best.

    If you want a clean herd and these guys are for sure positive, then sell them and restart with clean won't want to get to deep into breeding and raising positive goats.

    So sorry for the bad results. :(
  6. Kfin

    Kfin New Member

    Jun 23, 2010
    Canyon, TX
    Does waddl have a website. I will do that thanks for the idea. I sure do hope it was a false posative.
  7. RPC

    RPC Boer Goat Breeder

    I am really sorry you are going thru this but if it were me this is what I would do.
    1 Retest thru a different place to make 100% sure before I even react.
    2 I don't think I would sell them I would just bottle raise the kids.
    To bottle raise a cheaper way then formula is Vit. D cows milk from the store. As for the colostrum I would get the powder. Since they are standard I think for the 2 days you want to only feed the colostrum formula every 6-8 hours and only 3-4 feedings then after that work them up to 20 oz. very slowly ( an oz. every couple days) and only 3 bottles a day Then at 6-7 weeks wean them back to 2 bottles then when you are ready to wean start deluting the bottles with water until you are just giving water.
    At 2 weeks start introducing hay and grain but not to much grain because they will prob play with it more then eat it. Maybe start introducing water also.
    I hope this is helpful. I was taught this way to bottle feed from a breeder I got 2 of my does from. I hope everything works out and the test are negative this next time. Just take a deep breath everything will work out.
  8. Kfin

    Kfin New Member

    Jun 23, 2010
    Canyon, TX
    I don't know if she heat treats or not. I had no idea about cae at the time I bought them. I just figured later when I learned about it that might be why she bottle fed. She shows her goats and is a pretty well know breeder in this area so I just figured I was safe buying from her.

    Thanks everyone it helps to have some advice and input.

    Is bottle raising difficult? I know it's more involved but we had to bottle raise an orphan colt once and it was a nightmare he had to be fed every two hours for the first two weeks and that was hard. Bottle raising scares me because I am worried it will be hard.
  9. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    it is time consuming but not impossible.

    You will need to feed every 2-3 hours (not through the night though) for the first week. After that you can spread out the bottles but I still think that smaller amounts more often is better then large amounts less often. I try to emulate mom when bottle feeding.

    Everyone has their own methods that work. But also you can train them to a lambar feeder which is a bucket with nipples on it - this works well if you have a bunch of kids born at the same time adn you dont have enough hands to hold enough bottles.
  10. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    that is scary....I do agree with the others.....retest..... :wink: :hug:
  11. AlaskaBoers

    AlaskaBoers New Member

    May 6, 2008
    Wasilla Alaska
    Retest and inform the breeder, I'm sure he/she'd like to know
  12. Bellafire Farm

    Bellafire Farm New Member

    Jan 5, 2010
    NW Oregon
    I am heartbroken for you. Years ago my first little doeling showed up with a cyst on her check one day and I completely FREAKED OUT!! Tested her again, took her into the vet to draw out the fluid and have it tested. Made plans to re-test & cull all of my new little herd that came back positive. It was a HORRIBLE week. I can't even explain how many times I threw up just getting thru that week. Luckily it all came back negative & she had an infected thorn in her cheek. But oh the heartache. I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this. :hug:

    Definitely, RETEST, then inform the breeder if it's positive... she absolutely needs/should know. She may even offer to buy them back.

    Then you have to make a decision about what your goals are in the "life of goats"... If you just want these girls for pets...then it's not a big deal.

    But from a buyers standpoint (of nice quality goats) I would never consider buying from a farm that had CAE positive goats... there's too much stuff coming up about CAE positives showing up after breedings, or (mistakenly) babies nursing, etc. ... too much for me to worry about when I can just as easily go somewhere else that advertises & has proof of CAE/CL neg. results.
    Also, do you want to deal with pulling babies IMMEDIATELY every single time a doe kids.... are you sure you won't miss a birth in a year or two... even if she licks them clean you might be looking at issues w/CAE (atleast that's my understanding). That is a very tight wire to walk ALL THE TIME. That's a whole lot of stress for a person to carry.
    So overall it's really up to you...I COMPLETELY understand your love of your animals... but from what I've heard of you talking on the forum, well I guess I get/got the impression that you had more than just pets in mind. Overall, it's completely up to you hun. <HUG>
    We will all be here for you... no matter what. :) :grouphug: :hug:
  13. Victoria

    Victoria New Member

    Dec 20, 2008
    Vernonia, Oregon
    Yep, for sure retest, don't trust the Elisa test as it can have false positives, I forget the ratio,I think its 12% of the positives are false. This comes from a Veterinarian that I worked for and trust. I know a few breeders here who stopped testing all together because of the false positives.

    I am so sorry for the stress this must be causing you!!
    I hope your second test is correct and negative!!
  14. Coyote Night Acres

    Coyote Night Acres New Member

    Dec 26, 2010
    Wow, I'm so sorry that you are having to deal with this. No one ever wants to be in the position that you are in right now. I have not had my little herd tested yet and I would like to have them tested in the future. My worst fear is having this happen, so I have kinda tried to prepare myself for what sort of plan of action I would take with my herd. This is what I came up with.

    - Have all the doe's bred by one of my bucks that I know has already been exposed to the disease from being with the girls. (Wouldn't want to expose anyone elses buck or a clean buck)

    - Assist all the births. Don't let momma lick the babies, don't break the sack while in mom, deliver on to newspaper or puppy pad. Once the kids are born you don't let them lick each other untill you can wash them in a sink. Once dry they can go back together.

    - Bottle feed the kids with heat treated colostrum and pasturized milk or maybe even from a confirmed negative doe kept seperate from the herd.

    - Handle the babies first before the rest of the herd and clean your clothes, shoes etc... before going back to the babies after takeing care of the herd. Very sanitary.

    - Once you have a replacement daughter out of all the doe's cull the moms.

    I think before you would want to keep your kids where the herd was you would want to do a thourogh cleaning and sanitizing. To be safe. After that You would find an all new buck to use with your now clean herd. If they don't test for CAE Tell them you'de like to have him tested before buying him and that you would pay for the tests and have the blood drawn if they would let you. That way you know your not bringing in the disease again. And honestly even if they do test, it might still be wise to have any new goats tested before buying them, because sometimes breeders swap goats with friends, breed doe's for other people and take in new goats that may have picked up the disease and brought to their herd without them knowing. Because I beleive the diesease can be dormant also.

    I pray that when you retest they come back neg, but just in case it is pos you need to come up with a game plan. :hug:
  15. Sunny Daze

    Sunny Daze New Member

    May 18, 2010
    Fairplay, MD
    So sorry :( I would retest to be sure, but I would think the likelyhood of all 3 having false positives is not very likely. If they are indeed positive and you are just starting out, I would cull them and start over. Either find them pet homes or put them down. You don't want to pass the problem on to someone else. Why start yourself off on the wrong foot? It will definitely make your sales more difficult and it will be very hard to catch ALL kiddings in the act, especially if you are new and aren't as good as reading the signs of early labor. Definitely contact the breeder too. Maybe they will take them back?
  16. Sunny Daze

    Sunny Daze New Member

    May 18, 2010
    Fairplay, MD
    The other option would be to keep them through their first kidding, try and catch all the kids and raise any doelings as replacements on strict CAE prevention. Then try and find them a nice pet home perhaps?
  17. Hidden Waters Farm

    Hidden Waters Farm New Member

    Oct 3, 2010
    Yes I agree, Definitely tell the breeder about it. If shes selling kids that are from CAE prevention then buyers are assuming they are clean.

    I don't know if its your pictures, But all 3 girls seem to be "bumpy" in the knee to me. I did notice before however and didn't think anything of it so maybe I'm just seeing things knowing the results :?

    I hope they don't test positive again, but bottle raising isn't that bad. Plus if you don't actually want to "Bottle Raise" you can get one of those nipple buckets for about $40.

    ETA: I skipped a few words and wanted it to make sense.
  18. comingsummers

    comingsummers New Member

    May 6, 2010
    Northern New Mexico
    I'm so sorry you are having to deal with this so early in the game. I really don't have too much advice to offer on this, but I found this link, to have a lot of interesting info on CAE and CL. Definitely made me do some deep thinking about those two diseases. I still haven't decided how in feel. I hope that this helps you make some decisions if it turns out that they really are positive. Do tell the breeder if they are, regardless of what you decide to do. She should know so that she can make her own decisions...
  19. Kfin

    Kfin New Member

    Jun 23, 2010
    Canyon, TX
    Thank you all very much for your advice. I have put my plan on action in place now.

    1st - Retset, but will have to wait until next week because i go in for Lasic eye surgery this week and need to be focused on that this week.

    2nd - if test are positive I will pull babies and bottle raise them, sell the girls to pet homes but will have to disclose they where positive for CAE. I will keep does that i get and sell my buck Gambit and purchase a new CAE free buck. The babies will be kept in a seperat barn until they are old enough to go in the other pen, but this will be after the girls are sold and I can disinfect their pen. If I don't get at least three girls I will also purchase a doe from a CAE free herd. I am thinking I really like the herd I got Gambit from so may just go back to that herd and buy from them again. We will see.

    I feel sad about having to let my girls go, but I know I am planning on a healthy herd and I want to raise some quality goats that are disease free, and my girls just don't fit the bill.

    All your advice is very helpful, and I will have my girls online close to kidding so anyone that wants to help me watch can, that way I will have a better chance at getting there.

    I have a questions is it hard to take them away from their mother? Does she cry for them?