New Mexico Thinking of giving away all my goats for Free (For Pets Only)

Discussion in 'Barter & Trade' started by GreenChiliGoats, Mar 13, 2020.

  1. GreenChiliGoats

    GreenChiliGoats New Member

    6
    Mar 13, 2020
    New Mexico
    I'm thinking of dispersing my herd and giving away all my goats for free. I have 14 dairy goats - 5 bucks, and 9 does, ranging from 1 to 9 years old. They are all mixed breed dairy goats (French Alpine, La Mancha, Toggenburg mixes with some members of the herd descended from the same French Alpine sire, would not recommend further inbreeding), and all but two goats have horns. I'd say.. 4 of them are skittish around people, and the rest of them are people friendly.

    Along with my herd, I'm also thinking of giving away hundreds of dollars worth of goat medicine (antibiotics.. etc) and herbs. I make my own herbal dewormer/medicine for my goats, and I have at least 2 boxes full of herbs I purchased from California. won't mind sharing my recipe with you.

    A little background info--

    I've been raising goats for over 9 years. They are my pets and family, and they go wherever I go. 2 years ago because of work, I had to move from Washington State to New Mexico. At some point, I decided to pay someone in Colorado $3000 bucks to transport my goats from my ranch in Washington State to where I lived. Now I'm back in Washington state again, but I'm very reluctant to transport them back to Washington. ;(

    Right now they are located in central New Mexico. I left them with a local family, and am paying the family about $450 a month (including feed) to care for the goats. Due to financial constraints and other reasons, it's not feasible anymore. Parting with my goats will be the most heart breaking decision I ever have to make, but I feel I have very little choice at this point. ;( Just wanna give you an idea how much my goats meant to me - So good home and loving family only. ;)

    Anyhow, if you're thinking of taking my goats, you should know that there are some strings attached --

    1. I'd prefer if you take them all as a group.

    2. For Pets Only -- the person who takes the goats need to promise me that they will be well taken care of, and under no circumstance will they be butchered or sold.

    3. Experienced goat herder, goats lover only -- just trying to find a good home to resettle my goats. If you have very little experience with goats or don't love goats like I do, no need to ask. Caring for goats requires endurance - it is a lot of work and a huge responsibility.

    4. You must come to New Mexico with a trailer and pick them up yourself. I might be able to offer some help with transportation, but keep in mind I only have a pickup truck.

    5. My preference is that you keep the horns and the boys' balls intact. ;) Call me a crazy goats lover, but somehow, dehorning and balls mutilation just seem so inhumane and disgusting. I cannot imagine my boys live out the rest of their lives as some half-man eunuchs. It is something that's impalpable to me. But I fully understand why some people would choose to do it. It's something that can be discussed. ;)

    6. I'd prefer if you don't breed them for the sole purpose of selling the babies. Goats slavery is a concept that really bothers me. Lol... Picturing some people munching on my babies' descendants really hurts my brain... LOL

    Okay, thanks for reading! ;) For pictures and other information, please contact me directly at [email protected]. If you wish to take all my goats, please contact me directly via email as well.
     
  2. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    I know you will not like hearing this however, here it goes.

    I feel, you are not making it fair to anyone who may want the goats.

    I do not see goats as any good in those numbers, if they cannot at least pull their own weight and help with their own care and expenses, by selling off some offspring.
    It is asking way to much, if one cannot afford out of pocket expenses, without breeding and selling some offspring.
    It costs a lot to care for that many goats.

    Having bucks means nothing, if you cannot use them right?

    It is a huge burden.
    Think about it.

    I am sorry if you do not like what I have to say, but I do not know of anyone who will take them in, telling them to sign a contract so they cannot profit off them for their own care.

    I understand, you care a lot about your goats.
     

  3. MellonFriend

    MellonFriend Well-Known Member

    Man, no offense, but I really agree with Toth Boer Goats. I understand that you are just trying to do what is best for your goats, but your ideology is not one that most people are going to share. Just because we sell our goats' offspring doesn't mean we are selling them just to be butchered. Lots of us are selling them to responsible people to become future breeders themselves. There is nothing wrong with wanting to sell your goats as pets, but I agree that it isn't reasonable to tell people they can't use them to better their own working herds.

    I think it could be dangerous to sell them to someone who agrees with you wholly on what you are asking for. That person may not realize what an undertaking (especially financially) it could be to suddenly own 14 pet goats. It's not like goats used for breeding are all living in terrible, cramped, and unhealthy conditions. Here on this forum you will find an abundance of people who put the health and care of their working goats over everything else. I know I do.
     
  4. GreenChiliGoats

    GreenChiliGoats New Member

    6
    Mar 13, 2020
    New Mexico
    No offense taken! ;) And guys, you are correct in your assessment. I would say raising goats has been one of the most costly hobby (not to say time consuming) I've ever undertaken.

    And I totally see your points. I doubt there's too many people out there who share my philosophy or have the financial means I possess. It's just that.. I absolutely resent cruelty to animals, and get attached to animals too strongly. In my mind, goats have already attained the special status that was given to dogs.. lol dont laugh.;)

    I wasn't doing any of this for money. It was solely for my personal pleasure (I was in for a big surprise), and really don't mean to brag, I'd say I'm better off than 90% of people out there. Without throwing a figure out there, I'd say... I doubt there's too many people out there who can have done what I had done without letting the animals pulling some weight. So I agree with you both, it's a huge undertaking the beginners can't even begin to comprehend.

    So I feel I'm in a huge bind, you know? Unless I can find someone who (maybe partially) share my philosophy, I don't feel I can part ways with my goats. I just wanna make sure they will end up in good home and be happy for the rest of their natural lives.

    So how about some compromises? ;) I don't care about the balls or horns.. You get to eat the boys' oysters.. lol
     
  5. GreenChiliGoats

    GreenChiliGoats New Member

    6
    Mar 13, 2020
    New Mexico
    Okay, after doing some thinking, I'm ready to make compromises. I realized the conditions I set might not be totally reasonable.

    They are for pets only (lawn mowers?;)) - whatever you do with the horns or balls is your business, I don't care. ;) Still hope the person who takes the goats won't breed them for the sole purpose of making money.
     
  6. Moers kiko boars

    Moers kiko boars Well-Known Member

    Apr 22, 2018
    Oklahoma
    Well..your boys..would prefer to make babies. They are fertile males. Thats their life purpose unless you remove that ability. So in my mind...if not using a buck..that would be inhumane torture being around females every month.
     
  7. Sfgwife

    Sfgwife Well-Known Member

    Feb 17, 2018
    North Cakalaki

    Once any animal leaves your property it is not your business what is done with them or how they are treated, fed, housed or any of that. They are no longer your property to be able to dictate anything to. Period.
     
  8. Damfino

    Damfino Well-Known Member

    Dec 29, 2013
    Right behind you
    No, but you can certainly try to find someone whose philosophy meshes with your own. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I try to find homes for my babies where I don't think they will be butchered, and there have been two people who I have asked to sign contracts stating they will offer me the right of first refusal if they find they must sell, or have signed something stating they will not breed a particular doe or sell her as a breeder. Can I enforce these contracts? No. But honest people will abide by them and the contract may help them remember the original stipulation of the sale. You may not find exactly the type of owner you like, but it doesn't hurt to try.

    That said, I agree with Moers Kiko Boers that keeping males intact without breeding is a type of cruelty in itself. Once their testicles are gone they don't miss them and actually tend to lead much happier lives as wethers than as bucks (believe me... I've had both and the bucks are way more stressed out!). I'm glad the OP has walked back the stipulation about not wethering. Horns, on the other hand... once a goat grows them I believe it's cruel to remove them except as a last resort to save a dangerous goat from the freezer. I would absolutely never sell a horned goat to someone I thought was going to try to remove them just for convenience' sake.

    Good luck, GreenChiliGoats! I hope you find the perfect home for your herd. You may find it's easier to break them up into smaller family groups. It is less stressful for the goats than selling them off one or two at a time but also much easier to find someone who can take them. Also, have you tested for CAE, CL, and Johnes? If not you may want to do this and hopefully get a clean herd status. That will make them much more attractive to experienced goat people.
     
  9. GreenChiliGoats

    GreenChiliGoats New Member

    6
    Mar 13, 2020
    New Mexico
    Thanks guys. ;) Really appreciate all your feedback. ;) A dose of reality never hurts. I'm not one who's easily offended, so no worries about speaking your mind. ;) I really appreciate all your feedback - it really opens my eyes and helps me narrow down what type of owners I might be going after.

    Damfino, sir, you can really read my mind!! ;) Honestly I so wish I can find someone who is like the two people you met. Now a contract might be overkill. I really just want some sort of assurance that the animals will never be harmed (or preferably, never be raised for profit). Now on the topic of balls removal, I would say I'm starting to agree with you guys. ;)) Thank you so much for shining a light on it!! I never realized keeping the balls intact might be a cruelty in itself.

    Moers -- you made a lot of sense too. ;) Thank you for sharing your thought process. Agreed with most of your points. It's just that I see those goats as family, and really want what's best for them.

    Like what Damfino said, I'd really love to find someone whose philosophy meshes with that of my own. Fingers crossed - hope someone will show up soon. ;)
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2020
    Moers kiko boars likes this.
  10. GreenChiliGoats

    GreenChiliGoats New Member

    6
    Mar 13, 2020
    New Mexico
    worst comes to worst, I might have to find a way to transport those babies back to Washington state, but I'm really hoping it won't come to that. I am very worried such long journey will be too stressful to them. ;(

    Now I just have an idea -- if any of you in Oklahoma or Texas (or maybe Arizona or Colorado) wants my goats, I am thinking I won't mind driving them to you.

    It's a 5 - 10 hours drive from where my goats are to Texas or Oklahoma (2 - 3 hours to Arizona and Colorado), and I'll have to buy a trailer. But I think.... if you can assure me the goats will be well treated and taken care of for the rest of their natural lives, I think I will do it.

    As far as New Mexico goes, I think I will never leave my goats in New Mexico. That state is full of goats munchers, so forget it. ;)

    EDIT: Driving the animals to you will be dependent on whether I'll be able to procure a cheap trailer in New Mexico. Can't promise anything at this point.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2020
    Moers kiko boars likes this.
  11. GreenChiliGoats

    GreenChiliGoats New Member

    6
    Mar 13, 2020
    New Mexico
    Okay! I've changed my mind about a few things, so I would like to change the terms --

    1. If you're just starting out or have very little experience with goats, it's fine. ;) I can be your mentor, teach you everything and share all my experience with you. And trust me when I say this -- I've seen and done everything, from delivering baby goats, administering subcutaneous injection, to treating nasty diseases like Listeria/Goat Polio. All I ask is that you be a loving parent to the goats.

    2. Balls removal is fine, dehorning is not (keep in mind none of them are babies). My eyes have been opened. ;)

    3. I might be able to deliver the goats to neighboring state (TX, OK, AZ, CO). I am willing to do anything and everything in order to find a loving home for my goats.

    4. Still not comfortable with the idea of breeding goats for profit. Like I said, in my mind, goats have already attained the status given to dogs, and they are family. ;) Sorry.

    5. One addition -- I do not like the idea of keeping goats in small pen or cage. Goats are meant to roam free. If you only have a small property like <1 acre or are planning on keeping goats in small pen, then sorry, I cannot agree with that kind of practice. My goats are wild and rebellious, and always have a smile on their faces (no joke). Would love to keep it that way.. Lol

    --------------------------------------------------
    Damfino - If you don't mind me asking, where did you find people like that who are willing to sign contracts? Did you meet them here on this forum... or maybe something like Craigslist?

    Would you recommend any other site for me to post my goats giveaway AD? Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2020
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  12. GoofyGoat

    GoofyGoat Well-Known Member

    Sep 21, 2018
    TEXAS
    Just remember "Free" goats leads to flippers too. They'll promise the moon then sell or eat or do whatever to your pets.
    Not everyone has goats best interest in mind. With the pandemic scare going on you might want to think about your timing too. The unscrupulous folks will think food supply.
    Just a thought.
    I'm hoping you find what's best for them and it works out.
    Good luck
     
  13. Damfino

    Damfino Well-Known Member

    Dec 29, 2013
    Right behind you
    I know a lot of folks in the area and they know me and my goats. I primarily breed packgoats and these days I have buyers lined up for my boys before I even advertise. My girls are registered with ADGA and disbudded as babies so they can grow up to be 4-H prospects or be easy dairy goats. My packgoats attend quite a few public functions so people often ask for my business card or website. I have advertised on Craigslist and I try to get a good feel for prospective buyers over the phone. I had one special doe who I advertised up front as having "strings attached" and when the lady bought her I asked her to sign a statement that she would offer the goat to me first if she ever needed to sell her. I have kept in pretty close touch with this woman over the years and I know she'll honor that contract. I never tell people they have to keep a goat for the rest of its life because life happens to people and goats don't always fit into life changes.

    I also gave away one goat as a companion animal because her udder was broken down. I asked that person to sign a contract that they would not breed the goat or sell her as a breeder. If they wanted to keep her for life, give her away as a weedeater/companion, or put her in their freezer that was up to them. I've also sold a couple of packgoat prospect bucklings who I wanted to breed before selling but the buyers wanted them sooner. I sold on the condition that I would get the goats back during breeding season and that the goats would not be wethered before then. This has worked out well both times I've done it.

    However, you'll notice that my stipulations are very specific. I don't have a lot of broad principles or long lists of rules that people must follow when buying my goats. Most goats go with no strings attached and I just hope that I have found good, honest people who will take excellent care of my "babies." Most of my buyers will never be able to provide the ample acreage that I have, but this doesn't mean the goats will be unhappy. Animals can adapt to all kinds of situations and still live good lives if the owners are attentive. The packgoats I've sold to people with small parcels make up for it by walking their goats every day and taking them for longer hikes on weekends. I've had to keep goats in less-than-ideal situations myself in the past and I've done extra work to make sure they still have good quality of life. This is one reason I suggest being willing to break up your herd. There are a lot more people out there who are capable of taking on 2-3 "pets" than people who can take 14 all at once and still give them a quality life.

    If some of your goats are of good dairy quality and tame enough to handle then there's really no reason to avoid selling them to someone who will put them to work. A sturdy milk goat goat can earn its keep and still have a very happy life. In fact, when they are properly cared for, I'd say working animals are generally happier than ones left to their own devices. There is something about animals that develop a relationship with people that imparts a special soul into them. I am 100% with you that goats are as special as dogs (in my case I'd say more special--my goats are more like family while my dogs are more like livestock whose sole purpose is to guard my precious goats). However, that doesn't mean my goats don't earn their keep! They give milk, they make babies, and the wethers are trained to pull wagons and carry packs. In fact, just a couple of weeks ago I put my two boys to work hauling firewood from a place that was too rocky and narrow to take my truck or tractor. They loved having a job! Using animals for work is not an indignity or cruelty and in fact can enrich their lives and ennoble them in many ways. ;)
     
  14. Caileigh Jane Smith

    Caileigh Jane Smith Active Member

    79
    Dec 1, 2019
    Missouri, USA
    Just a thought here: what about checking out a local livestock/goat rescue that might be willing to take all or some of your herd? It sounds like your hopes and goals for your herd might mesh better with some sort of a no-kill rescue than with an individual buyer.
     
  15. tammyd57

    tammyd57 New Member

    3
    Jun 28, 2018
    Central California
    I'd like to offer an idea that may work, and also be able to keep all your original requirements. There are quite a few people offering their herds as brush-clearing crews. The goats earn their keep (which is lower-because-free food), don't get bred every year, it doesn't matter if they have horns or not, and they get regular adventures to different properties.
    So you might want to look for anyone already doing this, that may want to increase their herd.
     
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  16. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    I know a brush-clearing crew of 2,500 goats and they do get bred. The more mouths the more he gets for the job per head. And they get it cleared off sooner.

    He had a person he hired to be with them 24/7 and watch them, but the guy messed up and he had several die.
    He fired the guy and sold out the rest of the goats, he was not happy about what happened.
    Losses from accidents or other things do happen.

    So not sure what other brushers do.