To induce or not to induce

Discussion in 'Kidding Koral' started by ruedyranch, Mar 15, 2012.

  1. ruedyranch

    ruedyranch New Member

    67
    Jan 14, 2011
    I have a boer doe who is day 144 today. Three years old and this is her second kidding. Delivered two fantastic 9-10 lb bucks last year. Early in her pregnancy I noticed her moaning a lot. Anytime she lays down she's moaning. She never seems in distress so I guess she is just being her. Not in pain and is chewing her cud. A couple of nights ago I really thought she had begun labor. Her ligaments are very soft, bagging up nicely (you can see the dairy in her!) and seemed to be contracting and even gave a few pushes. I stayed in the barn til 4am with her...nothing. She is definately VERY uncomfortable. Her moaning increases with the movement of the kids inside (understandable) and they are very active as I watch her. Looks like they are making every attempt to break out! Here is my dilemma: I'm wondering if I should induce her. I am positive of her due date. Watched the buck breed her several times and then removed her from the pen and hasn't seen him since. My concern is her constant pushing. I checked her this morning and she is not dilated. I can easily get one finger, maybe two in her cervix. Can't feel a kid right there. I'm usually pretty accurate with guessing if a doe has more than two. I think she does and I don't think they are huge. I have never induced a doe before because I have never felt a need. Now on to the conversation with my vet. Let me prefice this by saying I love her and think she is a great vet and I would do anything she told me to do with my donkeys but I have disagreed with some advice she has given me about managing my goats. When I spoke with her this morning we agreed that I would be the best judge as to induce or not. She gave me dexamethasone and lutalyse and instructions on how to use them. Initially on the phone she told me a huge dose of dexamethazone 20-25 cc IM in the neck. When I picked up the script today the instructions state 10cc at 12am (which is when I get home from work) and tomorrow morning to give 2cc lute. I called a friend of mine who has been a mentor and also breeds goats and she, stating she didn't want to contadict my vet BUT, if it was her she uses 5cc dexamethasone and 2cc lutalyse TOGETHER. She says the dex will make her labor and the lute will help her dilate. So keeping this long story long, any opinions on the danger of vaginal prolapse and the long term effect? Do I even need to be concerned? I would much rather wait and let her kid naturally but don't want to cause ill effect as a result of waiting either. I actually posted a short video of her on my facebook farm page when I thought her labor was beginning. You can see how nice her udder is looking and get an idea of her prolapse. It does return to normal after a few minutes on her feet. facebook.com/ruedyranch feel free to "like" my page as well! :wink: I just battle with the thought of allowing her to continue like this for almost another week on her own.
     
  2. If she has been actually pushing for days something may be wrong. Random contractions are ok and streaching to rearrange kids are ok but actual pushing is not. IS she trying to pee or poop and kinda pushing then or? Has she had any discharge?
     

  3. ruedyranch

    ruedyranch New Member

    67
    Jan 14, 2011
    No she is not trying to pee or poop she is def pushing. You can see it in the video I referred to. It seems very sporadic. She can go hours fine. She has had clear vaginal mucous and she has also had some anal leaking. I occasionaly notice a drip from her rectum like she's been straining and her tail is messy but absolutely nice pelleted poops. She is in a kidding stall by herself.
     
  4. ruedyranch

    ruedyranch New Member

    67
    Jan 14, 2011
    I checked her this morning and she is not dilated. I can easily get one finger, maybe two in her cervix. Can't feel a kid right there.


    Sorry you are mistaken, I wrote that she was not dilated and I did NOT feel a kid there.
     
  5. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    I would get the vet to look at her.... :hug:
     
  6. I had not said that she was dilated or that there was a kid there? ?
    What breed is she? If you can easily fit 2 fingers all the way into her cervix and she is a ND then I would actually guess she was dilated a little.
    My concern is that she is not dilated and if she has been pushing she may need to be dilated so that she can get the kids out. Sometimes things happen and a doe wont dilate but needs to. In a case like that ringwomb she may need help either physical and or medical to stimulate her cervix to dilate to allow the kids to pass.
    Once a doe starts pushing actively I like to see kids in a hour at most.
    If she has been pushing for days you should get her to a vet ASAP.
     
  7. ruedyranch

    ruedyranch New Member

    67
    Jan 14, 2011
    My comment was actually directed at a comment that has disappeared. They had stated that i needed to get the kid out ASAP since I could feel it, which was the mistake. This is a boer. She's pushing but not in labor. Probably from the vaginal prolapse and the pressure she's feeling. My vet has given me the go ahead to induce her but we don't always see eye to eye. There have been a few occasions where taking her advice would have ended badly for my animals. The only reason I would consider induction is to possibly save a kid that is getting way too big, prevent a uterine prolapse or other damage to her uterus. Today she is day 146.
     
  8. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    If she is prolapsing.... you will have to be there... when she kids..in case the prolapse gets in the way...to be able to move the prolapse... so the kids can be born........ :hug:

    Good luck... praying that it all goes well..... :pray:
     
  9. ruedyranch

    ruedyranch New Member

    67
    Jan 14, 2011
    Lilly kidded three large 9, 9 1/2 and 10 1/2 lb kids on Tuesday (her due date) She had a tough go of it. Turns out the first girl was butt first. When she had labored for over an hour with no progress I went in to see what I could feel...a tail. I was able to find her back legs and pull her out with quite a bit of tugging and her head was really stuck. The second kid, also a girl, literally fell out sideways and back first. The third came just a few minutes later. He was the biggest and came head first but no hooves. Had to really tug on him too. In hindsight I would have induced her at day 145. I got lucky this time. Guess I learned that I should really learn to trust my gut. I knew something wasn't quite right with her. Thankfully all turned out well. She is a boer/alpine cross so mostly white but built like a boer and bred to a solid red boer buck. She gave me a solid red doe, a paint doe and a paint buck. All are doing fantastic. Cute as can be. :leap:
     
  10. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Congrats.... :thumb: glad it went well and you were there for her....can't wait to see pics.... :hi5: :hug:
     
  11. KW Farms

    KW Farms Moderator Supporting Member

    Jun 21, 2008
    Wapato, WA
    That's good to hear! :thumb:
     
  12. packhillboers

    packhillboers Senior Member

    Oh my word! Those babies were in some bad positions for delivery... So glad you were able to be there to help them get in place to get out.
     
  13. packhillboers

    packhillboers Senior Member

    The first and last ones were in bad positions. We all learn so much from reading these birth posts. Thanks for sharing. The big one with head first ... no hooves.. ooooo.. It sure helps to get those hooves in place and push the head back. Everything just seems to happen so fast... I am often alone with these does.. Ahhh.. much help is needed for support with these problem births. So glad everything went well. but the stress can wear you out that's for sure. and .. such huge babies. !!
     
  14. ruedyranch

    ruedyranch New Member

    67
    Jan 14, 2011
    Just for fun thought I would share my experience with Lilly and this years kids. She again looked very large and after last year decided I wanted to make sure I was there when she kidded to assist if needed. I didn't even think twice this year about my decision...I induced her. I watcher her labor all day and night but she wasn't terribly uncomfortable so left her be for things to progress on their own. At 30 hours I gave her another dose of Lute and after a couple hours when she definately seemed more uncomfortalbe but no pushing. When I went in to check her all I felt were legs....lots and lots of legs. I started pulling kids out...1, 2, 3, 4! Two 9lb boys and 2 6lb girls! All are doing great at a week old and Lilly is nursing them all! She's the best mom and those kids are the cutest. One last fun note...I tried to breed her to my boer buck and she didn't really like him so to make sure she stuck I threw her and my Saanen buck into the pen together. She liked him! Three kids clearly sired by the Saanen and one sired by the Boer! Fun times!
     
  15. Di

    Di Crazy Goat Lady

    Jan 29, 2008
    central PA
    OMGosh! That is a very productive doe! Congrats. Hope she's able to feed them all...4 is so hard on them after a while.