Treva Brodt... needs help. Sick wether and possible hay issues?

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by Sfgwife, Jan 7, 2020.

  1. Sfgwife

    Sfgwife Well-Known Member

    Feb 17, 2018
    North Cakalaki
    @Treva Brodt here is your stuff that you sent me in a pm. I put it here so others could chime in for you.... which is i think what you wanted do in the first place maybe. :).


    I want to give some background first, my wether is off his feed but the herd has been eating less hay over the last 10 days to 2 weeks. I have been buying my hay from a local farmer for the last year. He is an honest, straight up guy so I have no reason to suspect that he has intentionally sold me hay that is inferior but I noticed they gradually started leaving hay and since there's no pasture here (Southern Ohio) I don't think they are finding something on my property to get in to. I honestly thought the hay I just bought looked better than the last load but the change in appetite started before I bought another 50 square bales. Today my wether wasn't interested in grain, hay and only a minimal sniff at his favorite treats. I brought him and a friend to the kidding pen/sick bay. His chest is clear and no discharge from his nose or eyes. I'm no expert with the FAMACHA score but the mucous membranes are pink. I don't know what normal rumen sounds are however, I used his friend for comparison and they sounded similar with occasional bowel sounds. Both sides of his belly are soft. His temp is only 100.1. I've had him vet checked before and his baseline is 101.5 to 102. No diarrhea, just some soft poop on the thermometer. I didn't see and abnormal poop on any of the other goats either.
    My brother in law offered to give us enough hay to switch everyone for 5 days so that should tell me if there is something wrong with the hay. I buy my grain from a local feed mill and they weren't adding any selenium. I thought one of the older does was looking poor and her tail was droopy so I asked them to add selenium to the feed every other month. They are adding one pound to 500 so now I'm thinking that sounds like an awful lot. I've looked up selenium toxicity and they don't seem to have any of the symptoms BUT, tomorrow I will be buying some name brand goat chow just in case.
    I would appreciate your suggestions with ruling out problems with the feed. My most immediate concern is getting my little wether's rumen up to par. I looked for C and D antitoxin at TSC this evening and they only had vaccines. I have on hand, Power Punch, baking soda, mineral oil, MOM, ACV and simethicone. Or should I just let his gut rest for tonight and start him on different hay tomorrow? He doesn't act like he is any distress
     
  2. Treva Brodt

    Treva Brodt Well-Known Member

    234
    Jan 10, 2019
    West Union, Ohio
    I found this in a different thread, the comment was made by mariarose.

    Here's a question... are you using the kind of thermometer that only takes a few seconds to read? They are not able to take an accurate temp in goats. You need the more regular, longer to read kind.

    That's the thermometer I'm using, the one that only takes 2 seconds. I thought it would be easier to use on a moving target. It looks like I need to find a different thermometer and calm down a little.
     
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  3. Moers kiko boars

    Moers kiko boars Well-Known Member

    Apr 22, 2018
    Oklahoma
    After seeing a post on TGS. it was about green hay particles sticking into the inside lips, upper palate. Did you check your wethers mouth? I had not seen anything like that before. So I would suggest that you look inside his mouth.
     
  4. Treva Brodt

    Treva Brodt Well-Known Member

    234
    Jan 10, 2019
    West Union, Ohio
    I never thought to look in his mouth, that'll be fun! Its a good idea because I've noticed pieces of something that's dark reddish brown sticking to my gloves. It's real prickly like it may have tiny briers on it. Maybe they all have Captain Crunch mouth???

    :clever:
     
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  5. GoofyGoat

    GoofyGoat Well-Known Member

    Sep 21, 2018
    TEXAS
    As far as his rumen, give either probios or flat dark beer to help give it a boost. Even if he doesn't need it neither would hurt him. Neither would a dose of vitamin b complex.

    It's been a bad year for hay it seems. Can you give them some alfalfa pellets until you get new hay from your brother in law? I'd pull apart a bale and take it to who you got it from. Maybe he didn't know what's causing the problems invaded his hay field, if he's a straight up guy he might have some different to exchange for.
     
  6. SalteyLove

    SalteyLove Well-Known Member

    Jun 18, 2011
    New England
    Yes definitely check for foxtail
     
  7. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    I agree with everyone.

    How are his rumen sounds and movement, left side?

    If it is something messing with his mouth, making it hurt when he eats, it may be his rumen is off.

    If the thermometer is accurate, he is slightly sub temp. Give fortified vit B complex SQ, 1 or 2 x a day, 6 cc's per 100 lbs for at least 3 days, longer if you have to.
    Also give probiotics daily.

    No grain, while he is off feed.
     
  8. Treva Brodt

    Treva Brodt Well-Known Member

    234
    Jan 10, 2019
    West Union, Ohio
    I gave up and took my little buddy to the vet today. I am notorious for over thinking things and got worried about UC since I hadn't seen him poop or pass urine. I spent most of the night sitting with him in his stall and noticed him grinding his teeth and trembling. I called the vet and met him at the office as soon as he came back for lunch. Since I was the only patient there for a while and Buck loves to ride, by the time we got there he had perked up considerably After he ruled out parasites and anemia he taught me how to palpate for a distended bladder and how to listen for normal rumen sounds. He thinks there may be something in some of the bales of hay that doesn't agree with him and probably is gastritis. The vet says everyone in this area had problems with Foxtail in their hay this year and that could definitely be the issue. He OK'd my feed formula and reassured me that I wasn't giving too much selenium. He advised yogurt and probiotics which I had on hand and sold me a new formula of Banamine that's topical and no longer off label as a pain medication because of new research studies.
    We stopped at a dairy bar on the way home and Bucky entertained the workers with his antics. He got up in windshield and chewed up the mail we had laying there and stuck his head out the window at a lady that almost jumped out of her skin when she saw his horns. It got to be a game with the workers peeking out the window to watch for people's reaction when they realized it wasn't a dog sitting in the front seat of our truck. He's had his yogurt and some good pain meds, now we wait.
     
  9. SalteyLove

    SalteyLove Well-Known Member

    Jun 18, 2011
    New England
    Darn I missed this update. I hope Bucky has made a full recovery and I was very interested to read of this topical Banamine - thank you for sharing!
     
  10. Treva Brodt

    Treva Brodt Well-Known Member

    234
    Jan 10, 2019
    West Union, Ohio
    I haven't been on here for a while. On January 27, I had to have Buck put down. I started a long response to this thread after I read Boer wether seems "off".RIP HAGRID and then somehow deleted it. It seems many of the symptoms were very similar, beginning with just off and nothing much to treat until suddenly critically ill. Buck was seen by two vets and neither one thought it was pneumonia. Toward the end Buck had neurological symptoms. I thought he had made a full recovery and turned him back in with the herd. When I went to feed the next day he was down and couldn't get up. I put him in the car and rushed him to the nearest vet who recommended thiamine but he didn't keep it anymore because he quit making farm calls. His regular vet refused to give him any, didn't want to see him again and didn't think there was anything else to do for him. My best guess is he was being a dick because I took Buck to someone else even though I explained to office personnel when I called that under the circumstances I didn't think I could transport him to their office because of distance. I was just losing my shit; we scooped him up in the wheel barrow, farm truck wouldn't start so we put him in my hatch back and drove with him screaming and trying to stand. SO, I stopped at the vet that was 5 miles from the house. After he got emergency treatment I scrunched up in the back with him and held him for the ride home. I gave everything available to me and he improved for a couple of days then lost interest in fluids and alfalfa pellet smoothies. I found a vet service that would come to us to euthanize him. No way could I let someone shoot my baby. I have cried a part of every day since. I really feel like his care was botched. My close to home, sees my small animals, vet Rick said he didn't think Buck's regular vet Brian liked dealing with goats. That still makes me angry. I don't know why he wouldn't just have said so to begin with and I would have looked elsewhere. I do believe he is knowledgeable but if one doesn't like treating goats just be honest and decline them as patients. Not only have I lost a goat that was like a child to me, I feel betrayed. I won't be taking any of my animals to that practice ever again. I have some emergency medicines and tools in my kit. I have learned the hard way but I will keep adding to my supplies because I just don't have quick or easy access to a vet that knows goats, cares about goats and keeps the necessary meds to treat goats in stock. My condolences to GoofyGoat. Sincerely sorry for her loss.
     
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  11. GoofyGoat

    GoofyGoat Well-Known Member

    Sep 21, 2018
    TEXAS
    @Treva Brodt
    Oh no! I'm so so sorry you lost Bucky! I know how heartbreaking it is. ((HUGS!))

    I've been buying every treatment that's mentioned in many threads one by one. The most important being vitamin b complex from Tractor supply.
    Just so you know you can buy thiamine from racehorsemeds.com along with banamine and dex.
    Though Hagrid passed from liver failure with no known cause, I still feel like [email protected] that I couldn't do more to prevent it or have a different outcome. The reality is though nothing would have changed it.
    It's so hard to find a good vet. Keep looking and talking to as many you can find until you're ok with them. Try calling your county extension office and FFA and 4-H folks too.
    Hang in there.
    RIP Bucky

    Here's the link for Meds
    https://racehorsemeds.com/
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2020
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  12. Treva Brodt

    Treva Brodt Well-Known Member

    234
    Jan 10, 2019
    West Union, Ohio
    I really don’t know what lead to his death. Listeriosis or polio probably. Thiamine couldn’t have hurt him but it could have saved him if given early enough. He gave up when he quit eating. He never knew an angry word or unkind touch and I was tired of hurting him and not seeing any improvement. I just couldn’t keep breaking his trust. It seemed like the right thing to do by letting him die peacefully in my arms. I suppose a kid that wasn’t supposed to live that had 3 years of being spoiled rotten and loved dearly was much more than either of us could have hoped for.
     
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  13. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    I am so sorry.
    It could of been so many things. :(