Trying to Decide If I Should Keep a Daughter

1287 Views 16 Replies 8 Participants Last post by toth boer goats, 5 mo ago

Aozora

Discussion Starter · May 8, 2022

My husband and I keep arguing back and forth about whether we should keep a daughter from this doe, and if so, which one to keep. Can someone please give me some input and help us to figure it out?

The doe is a Nubian first freshener. She just had her first milk test ever, when she was 15 months old and 28 days fresh. She milked 6.8lbs, and quite frankly I'm disappointed. Did I have too high of an expectation thinking that a doe this young and this early in the lactation curve would milk more than a gallon? She did milk more than her dam did on her first milk test (6.1lbs at 45 days fresh).

Her udder is an improvement over her dam's. She has a wider escutcheon and a higher attachment, and boy is her udder bolted on from the sides and back.

Dam's 2F udder:

Eye Dog Fawn Dog breed Carnivore

Her FF udder:

Eye Vertebrate Dog breed Mammal Whiskers

Dog Carnivore Working animal Dog breed Fawn

She was bred to a buck with a lot of milky genetics, so their kids are definitely going to be an improvement in the milk department. His great-granddam was a Top 10 milker, and his dam milked for 600 days as a yearling FF. I don't have a straight-on picture of her escutcheon, which is not terribly wide:

Eye Fawn Terrestrial animal Liver Snout

Working animal Dog breed Wood Fawn Terrestrial animal

I do want to keep a kid from this pairing at some point due to increased milk capacity, but are either of these girls worth keeping? Or should I get a different buck entirely before I consider keeping a kid? Both of these girls are a month old and so have stretched out, but still have a lot of developing to do.

Nova (longer of the two):

Dog Carnivore Dog breed Companion dog Felidae

Nebula (wider of the two):

Dog breed Working animal Carnivore Fawn Toy

Any input from dairy breeders more experienced than me would be appreciated!

See less See more

7

Reactions: 2

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

jlLeslie

· #2 · May 9, 2022

I’m for keeping a doe when your trying to improve your herd by breeding up. Plus, if you have the room and aren’t worried about your numbers why not right

You never know a doe’s potential till she freshens. Plus if her dams 2nd freshening is still disappointing you could replace her with her daughter.

I like a longer doe so I’d probably keep the first but the that second gal is flashy!

Reactions: 2

Aozora

Discussion Starter · #3 · May 9, 2022

I guess the question is, given her lackluster first milk test, is it even worth keeping a kid? I know there will be an improvement in milk production given the buck's genetics, but will it be enough to hit that target of more than a gallon on first test as a yearling FF?

Jubillee

· #4 · May 9, 2022

I would not be unimpressed with her test. She's only 28 days, hasn't even hit peak lactation yet. Also very young. I've had 4-6lb FF Nubians do 11-12# as a 2F. If you like other things about her, I'd keep her. I usually choose the wider kid of all other things equal. But width is a big goal of mine.

Reactions: 5

Jubillee

· #5 · May 9, 2022

Also, I personally don't want my FF (and young ff) to go producing huge amounts their first year. I find they hold up better having a modest year then doing way better their second year.

Reactions: 5

goatblessings

· #6 · May 9, 2022

I look for attachments and overall structure of the udder. She is not at peak lactation, and if she is an improvement over the dam I would Keep and possibly move the dam along. FF udders can change drastically at 8 weeks fresh , and at 2nd fresh.

Reactions: 5

goatblessings

· #7 · May 9, 2022

I agree with width in a kid…

Reactions: 2

Aozora

Discussion Starter · #8 · May 10, 2022

Thank you so much for your input! I feel way better about her performance now. I guess because she is a yearling and a Nubian. I keep seeing things about yearling FFs hitting a gallon a day, so I had unrealistic expectations of her. And true, she's only 1.2lbs off of the gallon-a-day goal and she still has some time to hit her peak.

I was thinking of possibly keeping Nebula, the wider girl, but I was wondering if my judgement was clouded because she's so flashy and also a snuggly baby who likes to curl up in my lap at every opportunity.

Reactions: 5

jlLeslie

· #9 · May 10, 2022 (Edited)

Aw well

Aozora said:
I was thinking of possibly keeping Nebula, the wider girl, but I was wondering if my judgement was clouded because she's so flashy and also a snuggly baby who likes to curl up in my lap at every opportunity.

Aww, well a goats personality is something to consider. If you end up just not liking a doe for that reason, you probably won’t keep her in the long run anyway. Especially if she doesn’t handle well for milking.

I’m curious to what extent does everyone like a wide doe over long?

I prefer longer does (but not overly narrow) because they seem to handle pregnancy better then my wider short body does. My wide girls always had wide kids that were more difficult to deliver then my long body does and there seem to be more pressure on organs during the last month or 2.
I always thought wider would be better, more room, but it seems to be the opposite in my experience for some reason.

Reactions: 2

Kaitlyn

· #10 · May 10, 2022

Aozora said:
Thank you so much for your input! I feel way better about her performance now. I guess because she is a yearling and a Nubian. I keep seeing things about yearling FFs hitting a gallon a day, so I had unrealistic expectations of her. And true, she's only 1.2lbs off of the gallon-a-day goal and she still has some time to hit her peak.

I was thinking of possibly keeping Nebula, the wider girl, but I was wondering if my judgement was clouded because she's so flashy and also a snuggly baby who likes to curl up in my lap at every opportunity.

I personally agree that width is very important! I would go and keep Nebula, but in the end it’s your choice!

Reactions: 1

Jubillee

· #11 · May 11, 2022

jlLeslie said:
Aw well

Aww, well a goats personality is something to consider. If you end up just not liking a doe for that reason, you probably won’t keep her in the long run anyway. Especially if she doesn’t handle well for milking.

I’m curious to what extent does everyone like a wide doe over long?

I prefer longer does (but not overly narrow) because they seem to handle pregnancy better then my wider short body does. My wide girls always had wide kids that were more difficult to deliver then my long body does and there seem to be more pressure on organs during the last month or 2.
I always thought wider would be better, more room, but it seems to be the opposite in my experience for some reason.

I prefer wide and long and very deep. We dont have any super short wide does, but all of ours that have excellent width in the rear have kidded fantastically with no need for intervention. I have a mini-Nubian (kids should be 4-6#) that had 2 11.5# singles and this year had 9# and 8# twins. I didn't have to help her at all. Another mini Nubian that has had 8# kids jsut slide out like butter with minimal pushing.

All of our longer but narrower does seemed to struggle more to push kids out.

Reactions: 4

Aozora

Discussion Starter · #12 · May 11, 2022

jlLeslie said:
Aww, well a goats personality is something to consider. If you end up just not liking a doe for that reason, you probably won’t keep her in the long run anyway. Especially if she doesn’t handle well for milking.

Yes, definitely personality is a factor. The dam of the doe in question, the one who owns the udder in the first picture, has a TERRIBLE personality. Her main means of communication is a banshee shriek (and I mean bad, even for a Nubian. The rest of mine only shriek like that when they're in heat on the 2nd day when they're getting desperate for a boy). She isn't friendly like the other goats (dam raised by a breeder with 25+ does), and she is hateful to the lowest doe on the pecking order. I have seen her attack and ram the poor girl 4x in the space of a milking session (about 30min). So she's getting sold at the end of her lactation this year. Her daughter and granddaughter will more than make up for her.

Also, something interesting I just noticed. Look at the pictures of Andromeda (dam) and Nebula (daughter). I guess placement and size of moonspots are genetic?

Dog breed Carnivore Grass Companion dog Livestock

Dog breed Toy Working animal Carnivore Fawn

See less See more

2

Reactions: 5

Kaitlyn

· #13 · May 11, 2022

Aozora said:
Yes, definitely personality is a factor. The dam of the doe in question, the one who owns the udder in the first picture, has a TERRIBLE personality. Her main means of communication is a banshee shriek (and I mean bad, even for a Nubian. The rest of mine only shriek like that when they're in heat on the 2nd day when they're getting desperate for a boy). She isn't friendly like the other goats (dam raised by a breeder with 25+ does), and she is hateful to the lowest doe on the pecking order. I have seen her attack and ram the poor girl 4x in the space of a milking session (about 30min). So she's getting sold at the end of her lactation this year. Her daughter and granddaughter will more than make up for her.

Also, something interesting I just noticed. Look at the pictures of Andromeda (dam) and Nebula (daughter). I guess placement and size of moonspots are genetic?
View attachment 229344
View attachment 229345

That shoulder mark is almost exact, that’s crazy!

Reactions: 1

The Goat

· #14 · May 12, 2022

I’d say if you got the room and money and are not worried about numbers then I would keep the wide girl she can replace her mother if your not happy with her. And if she does nnot prove out then you can try another line 😊

Reactions: 1

Aozora

Discussion Starter · #15 · 5 mo ago

Giving an update on these two ladies...

I did sell the terrible dam. Andromeda never did make the 1 gallon mark, and I honestly attribute that to the dam attacking everyone nonstop and stressing them out, as well as our brutal heat here. Numbers did get better at the end of the year, and although Andromeda didn't make the criteria for volume, she did meet milk star criteria on both fat and protein--so she is now a 2*M!

Font Material property Parallel Rectangle Pattern

Nebula turned out gorgeous. Like, breathtaking. I am so glad we kept her. I know she isn't set up very well in this picture, but she doesn't have to be. Look how wide and deep she is, and how level. She already has nice teats, even at 8 months old. And she will be an improvement on her dam--I can tell already. I'm not breeding her til fall of 2023, so it will take a while to prove out milk production increase, but I am so pleased with her. And she's an amazing sweetheart, too.

Mammal Dog breed Fawn Grass Terrestrial animal

See less See more

2

Reactions: 5

Brooklynn J.

· #16 · 5 mo ago

Gorgeous!

Reactions: 1

toth boer goats

· #17 · 5 mo ago

Nice. 😊

Reactions: 1

1 - 17 of 17 Posts