Tutorial: Surgically Banding Horns

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by Little-Bits-N-Pieces, Apr 13, 2015.

  1. Little-Bits-N-Pieces

    Little-Bits-N-Pieces Active Member

    Apr 7, 2013
    CA
    I think I would just put more bands where your last cut is, if not, yeah make a new one and you may have to get some duct tape to keep it there.
    After the horns fall off and they're all dry and healed up, they're no more sensitive than any other goat.
     
  2. eqstrnathlete

    eqstrnathlete Active Member

    Mar 16, 2013
    How does this look? I got them as low as they would go. ImageUploadedByGoat Forum1436303466.390666.jpg
     

  3. Little-Bits-N-Pieces

    Little-Bits-N-Pieces Active Member

    Apr 7, 2013
    CA
    Should work just fine! :thumbup:
     
  4. peggy

    peggy Senior Member

    Aug 10, 2010
    B.C. Canada
    I have a young, 4 month old wether, that I want to keep for a pet and train to cart work. He has a botched disbudding and is growing funky horns. I want to band them but what is the best age. I heard that 6 months should be the earliest?? I will wait for a little longer til the flies are gone but just wondered about the age.
     
  5. Little-Bits-N-Pieces

    Little-Bits-N-Pieces Active Member

    Apr 7, 2013
    CA
    The oberhasli's I did were only a little over 4 months old. I think the best time to do it is when their horn growth slows. I would think if they still have some pretty rapid growth, it wouldn't work as well.
     
  6. peggy

    peggy Senior Member

    Aug 10, 2010
    B.C. Canada
    Thanks. I am going to do his horns in a coupe weeks. I am going to just try to make a couple notches down low to hold the band. I don't have the stomach to cut so hopefully this will work. My friend does that and it works for her.
     
  7. TexasGoatMan

    TexasGoatMan Well-Known Member

    595
    Jul 3, 2015
    Dekalb, Texas
    Do you have a picture of the finished process ?? I am considering banding a young doe for horn removal and would like to get your final take and picture. Thanks in advance
     
  8. FascinatingLady

    FascinatingLady Member

    111
    Mar 6, 2016
  9. deniseross

    deniseross Member

    31
    Jun 10, 2016
  10. Suzanne_Tyler

    Suzanne_Tyler GreenTGoats

    Jul 19, 2014
    US
    That should work just fine. I put duct tape inside out around the horn, then the band, and then more duct tape over top. It works about half the time, but I figure doing it twice is easier than cutting! ;)
     
    DelicasDreamery likes this.
  11. hmnorwood

    hmnorwood New Member

    17
    Apr 26, 2013
    ImageUploadedByGoat Forum1477777470.300910.jpg ImageUploadedByGoat Forum1477777480.578432.jpg ImageUploadedByGoat Forum1477777488.062763.jpg

    I am a nervous wreck mine broke off today!
     
  12. Suzanne_Tyler

    Suzanne_Tyler GreenTGoats

    Jul 19, 2014
    US
    Looks fine to me. You can put some cobwebs or cayenne pepper on it to help the bleeding stop, if it is still bleeding.
     
  13. capracreek

    capracreek Well-Known Member

    471
    Apr 5, 2016
    Missouri
    I agree it is a safety issue - ours invariably stick their heads through the fencing then we have to go out and get them loose before they tear the fencing up or hurt themselves. Plus the head butting when I have some goats that are disbudded and some not. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.:ram:
     
  14. Damfino

    Damfino Well-Known Member

    Dec 29, 2013
    Right behind you
    I would suggest that people who have problems this severe are simply not set up for horned goats. You have to build your fences and feeders with horns in mind, and you absolutely must have enough space for them. Horned goats require a larger area and more shelter options than dehorned ones. I keep a herd of mixed horns/no horns and we've not had a single issue with horns except that they tend to scratch my truck when they walk by. We've had several accidents and injuries involving feet and legs, but only one involving a horn and that was 12 years ago when a goat was chased off a cliff by a friend's dog and broke a horn. I'm pretty sure in that case, the horns saved the goat's life by protecting his head. He should not have survived that fall.

    But yes, you do need to be properly set up for horns. If you can't manage horned animals then they should be disbudded for their safety and yours. This is a decision people need to make in the first week and not change their minds about later. I tend to think banding horns is ethically questionable except as a last resort for a goat that would otherwise have to be put down. In my opinion it's better to either change your management practices to accommodate horns or else rehome the goat with someone who is better equipped to handle it.
     
    cindy wilson likes this.
  15. Madgoat

    Madgoat Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    I had my babies disbudded and mentioned lidocaine to numb the area and was told that lidocaine is toxic to goats. Is there any validity to that? Have you experienced any adverse reactions?
     
  16. Little-Bits-N-Pieces

    Little-Bits-N-Pieces Active Member

    Apr 7, 2013
    CA
    Never had a problem with it on cows, goats or dogs.
     
  17. camooweal

    camooweal Active Member

    174
    Jun 27, 2015
    We've just dehorned a four-year old Nubian doe. She was disbudded as a kid but still grew one horn three inches long and a stubby one about an inch long. She came to us two years ago but began to use the longer horn on the other does so we ended up putting a rubber ring on that horn, and taping it in place. The ring was put on as low as we could get it That was on December 6 and it finally fell off on January 17. She was left with a very clean, tidy site, level with the skull and very little bleeding. It has improved her looks no end - with the horn on she had a long, narrow-looking head but now her head is wider. I know it's still the same head though and I have to look twice to pick her out when they're lined up at the feed trough. If she behaves she can keep the stubby but if not, we'll put a ring on that too!

    camooweal
     
  18. SuperflyMD

    SuperflyMD New Member

    5
    Jan 24, 2017
    I'm still new to goat stuff, but my research says that in the doses necessary for adequate numbing in small kids it can easily be toxic. The general recommendation is to dilute to half strength, then use only 1-2 cc. The best hard data I found, though, said the babies had similar stress behaviors and cortisol (stress hormone) levels after disbudding with lidocaine as they did without any anesthesia. The only method where this wasn't true was with light sedation using ketamine--not readily available to the general populace.

    The banding shown here is on grown animals, so the relative amount of lidocaine injected is much less likely to cause problems.

    The small herd we bought all have horns. Tomorrow I'm going to disbud our new babies. If I see problems after they're integrated with the adults, I'm likely to try this banding method on the adults. Thanks for posting it.
     
  19. Little-Bits-N-Pieces

    Little-Bits-N-Pieces Active Member

    Apr 7, 2013
    CA
    Interesting. I definitely used more than 2cc per horn, kids were about 70lbs or so, didn't have any issue with it.
     
  20. SuperflyMD

    SuperflyMD New Member

    5
    Jan 24, 2017
    Wow.

    My only experience is with Nigerian Dwarves. I weighed the week-old babies yesterday. They were about 7 lbs. The newborns look about half that. Even Momma Matilda was only 64 lbs!

    I knew mine were little, but that's a huge difference.

    Clearly, toxic doses would be easier to hit in my little ones.