Udderly confused! - pictures added

Discussion in 'Kidding Koral' started by keren, Nov 3, 2008.

  1. keren

    keren owned by goats

    Oct 26, 2008
    Australia
    Aargh! It seems my does are well versed in the doe's code of honour, and they are putting a new spin on it.

    So I have five adult does who didnt kid with the main mob, for various reasons, and they are all driving me nuts in various ways.

    There is Calypso, FB boer doe, who has been joined three times to three different bucks and she habitually aborts at about 35 to 40 days. I think she will have to be culled, but that will be a hard day because she was my poddy from last year.

    Next is Maddie, my British Alpine doe, who is filling in the udder even though I havent purposely joined her, but there was an incidence about 3 - 4 months ago where she *may* have jumped in with the bucks and then out again.

    Then there is Ellie, Cheryl and Lucky. These girls are Angoras, age unknown (but I would say at least 5 or 6 for Cheryl and Lucky, and Ellie has to be 10 +). Rescue goats from a suburban backyard, they were emaciated and hadnt been shorn in several years. I experimentally joined them to my angora buck who has one enlarged testicle - to see if he is fertile. I didnt want to risk joining him to the main mob and perhaps not getting any kids. Anyway, come scanning time, we scanned Ellie definitely empty, Lucky possibly empty rescan to confirm and Cheryl possibly pregnant rescan to confirm. Anyway, since then, Lucky and Cheryl have both come into season, and showing no spring to the udder or vulva (they would be due in early Jan) and Ellie ... well, Ellie has got milk in one side of her udder! Not knowing her previous history, I am thinking the other side is dead, and maybe she's a one sider. But her scan looked dead set empty!

    I really gotta get this next lot of scanning done. But I havent got time atm ... assignments, exams, work, harness goat publicity ...
     
  2. keren

    keren owned by goats

    Oct 26, 2008
    Australia
    Re: Udderly confused!

    Okay, so I just went out and fed and here's an update.

    Maddie - has got a filling udder, no changes to the vulva, her udder contains liquid that looks just like milk but tastes salty.

    Ellie - has got a filling udder (on one side), slight changes to the vulva but nothing substantial, her udder contains liquid that looks like milk but tastes salty.

    Cheryl - no visible changes to the udder or vulva, but I can get a clear watery liquid from the udder.

    Lucky - no visible changes to the udder, slight changes to the vulva but nothing substantial, her udder contains a sticky liquid similar in consistency to colostrum, but it is an opaque light tan colour.

    What do you make of this? If they were in fact pregnant, they would be due 16th Jan (Ellie), 27th Jan (Lucky), shoot I cant remember at the moment when Cheryl was but she was joined a few days before or a few days after Ellie. Maddie, well I got her in mid June so she could be theoretically due from mid Nov early October.

    :shrug:

    I'd REALLY appreciate your input on this one.
     

  3. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Re: Udderly confused!

    Now, that would confuse ME! LOL....I would assume that you'll be scanning again? The "lopsided" udder on the one doe could be from a case of mastitis or she had a single that just nursed one side. Hope you can figure them out, I wouldn't know where to start. :?
     
  4. keren

    keren owned by goats

    Oct 26, 2008
    Australia
    Re: Udderly confused!

    Argh, Liz, its bugging me, I just keep going out there and LOOKING at them, cos yeah thats going to help lol

    The one with the lopsided udder has to be 10+ (I only got her this year, unknown history) and I figure that one size is dead - presumably from mastitis. The filling teat is huge - going to be a great big ugly bottle teat. Doesnt worry me that much - if need be I will milk her out and bottle feed the baby. She is such a sweet doe she has earned herself a place here for the rest of her life - and if I get a doe kid she will be retired, if not, well I might be greedy and try for another pregnancy lol. Ellie definitely has a place to stay - she will keep Maddie the other senior citizen company, as they both have no teeth left and need daily grain feeding - they dont do well on the browse and pasture like the others.

    Lucky and Cheryl ... are a different story. They are just MAD. I have had them since July which is plenty of time for them to settle down but they still havent. Lucky is just flighty, but Cheryl is MEAN. She can line you up from 50 m away in the paddock, she just charges at you to knock you over. She also bites, and oh boy she knows how to use those horns. As much as I dont like tethering, these two are now permanent tethers because I just cannot manage them otherwise. They break away from the mob when you need to yard them ... honestly they are that bad that if I needed to get to them I think I would have to shoot them with a stun dart in the paddock. Anyway, if they are not pregnant they can go off to the abbatoirs. If they are pregnant, I will wait till they kid, then bottle raise the kids and get rid of the does.

    So, I'm thinking, good place to start is to rescan, or maybe take bloods.
     
  5. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    Re: Udderly confused!

    Where are you located?

    I would draw blood and send it in. I have had US come back clear and then a month later twins - and then delivered trips. At least with blood you know for sure!
     
  6. keren

    keren owned by goats

    Oct 26, 2008
    Australia
    Re: Udderly confused!

    kelebek, I am in Australia.
     
  7. helmstead

    helmstead New Member

    772
    Oct 1, 2008
    Alfordsville, IN
    Re: Udderly confused!

    Wow, you have a mystery!

    Many of my does (Minis) develop small udders when they're in heat. I'm talking small as in about a handful of tissue. I've never expressed it, so I have NO idea what it would look or taste like. That along with the vulva changes - they might simply be in season. :shrug:

    I would either do blood or radiograph (harder to miss a skull or two via radiograph than it is with a scan). If you have a large animal vet that carries portable radiograph, it should be relatively inexpensive.

    Good luck!
     
  8. keren

    keren owned by goats

    Oct 26, 2008
    Australia
    Re: Udderly confused!

    Lucky - not much visual udder development, slight vulva development.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Cheryl - not much visual udder or vulva development

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Ellie - some udder development, no vulva development - you can see why I think she's got a dead side on the right

    [​IMG]

    Maddie - lots of udder development, no vulva development

    [​IMG]

    Sorry bout all the hair lol
     
  9. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    It is hard to tell on the angora's, I'd say that they are either very early in pregnancy or open. The Alpine, possible but shewould have a ways to go and lots of filling to do. :shrug:
     
  10. keren

    keren owned by goats

    Oct 26, 2008
    Australia
    Scanning tomorrow night ... will let you know how it goes