Urinary Calculi Help!

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by PACE, Apr 15, 2009.

  1. PACE

    PACE New Member

    404
    Oct 8, 2007
    Mass
    Shanti has stones, I'm positive of it. When I went down this morning he was standing stretched and was crying every 20 seconds or so in apparent distress. He has one crystal/stone hanging down under his tummy about 1/4 the size of a penny. He is peeing very small drops. I walked him and made an ammoium chloride mixture according to the directions on the package. I mixed 1 teaspoon with water and drenched him (though he spit about half of it out), and I'm not sure how often I should do it or if it will be enough. I've given no ACV as of yet. The vet will be called as soon as they open.

    Shanti is an almost three year old Nigerian Dwarf wether and about 70 pounds. None of my three goats have ever had any problem with U.C. before. I feed him about 1.5 cups of Caprine Challenger (divided up) and alfalfa pellets and hay stretcher and hay. I do not give much grain throughout the summer but my hay was only so-so for the winter so I started giving him a bit more. They also get free choice Golden Blend minerals and water.

    I am quite upset as this guy is one of my pets and is treated as such. I want to do whatever I can, within reason to make him better and not in pain.
     
  2. Deena

    Deena New Member

    75
    Jan 31, 2009
    North Carolina
    I wish I knew how to help about the only thing I would advise is take a really warm soapy wash cloth and clean the area and cut out all grain then wait for the vet . :grouphug: sorry your little guy is going through this.
     

  3. badnewsboers

    badnewsboers New Member

    429
    May 9, 2008
    Newport, NC
    ACV will not help. It is Acetic acid which the body makes naturally and in much higher does than a drench will supply.

    Keep drenching him hourly with AC.

    Here is treatment recipe I know some people hav had luck with:
    1. 3 lemons

    2. 3 garlic cloves peeled

    3. 1 red onion ( 1/4 piece of onion

    4. 1/2 cup of water



    Squeeze the lemon juice out of the lemons. Into a blender, then add

    the 3 garlic cloves, and onion. Add water and blend well because you

    don't want to plug your drench gun. Simmer for about 15 minutes on

    the stove in a sauce pan. Drench goat every two hours. It's acid

    base,so it dissolves the stone (calculi) quickly.


    If he stops dribbling you will have to act quickly. As long a he is peeing some it is a good sign. If he stops peeing you may have to cut off his pizzle-the appendage at the end of the penis. That is where most stones end up lodged. Extend the penis and cut it off as close as possible to the head of the penis with a clean pair of nail clippers.
     
  4. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    oh Emily I hope he makes it through quickly for you. :hug:
     
  5. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    Massachusetts
    Your probably at the vet by now. I'll be praying that everything turns out ok for Shanti. :pray: :hug:
     
  6. liz

    liz Active Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    I hope that Shanti pulls through this....I know how much you love your boys. The only thing I can offer here is for prevention, add 2# of Ammonium Cloride to 25# of loose minerals...and maybe cut out the alfalfa pellets.
     
  7. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    I will be praying for the guy... :pray:
     
  8. keren

    keren owned by goats

    Oct 26, 2008
    Australia
    Flip him over onto his bum, get someone to hold him for you. Push down on his belly between where his scrotum would be, and where his pizzle is. You should feel his penis - in a little guy like him it might only be the thickness of your little finger but you should feel it running along to the pizzle. Pinch your fingers around it, roughly halfway between pizzle and scrotum, and push it up, at the same time with the other hand, push down on the skin around the pizzle to draw it back, this should expose the penis. Its a bit tricky to do and takes a LOT of patience and perseverance - it is even harder on small guys and wethers.

    When you expose the penis you may be able to see the stone on the end and remove it - also cut off the wiggly bit on the end of the penis. Sharp pair of scissors dipped in antiseptic will do fine.

    Good luck, I'm crossing my fingers for him!
     
  9. PACE

    PACE New Member

    404
    Oct 8, 2007
    Mass
    Thanks for the replies. I am not a "real" farmer and am not made of tough enough stuff to do this procedure myself, so I got him the best care I could find. Shanti is one of my beloved pets, so I'm willing to do whatever it takes, within reason, to get him better.

    I don't have any bad news, but not too good either. After giving Shanti the drench I had to go to school but I wrote a list of symptoms and his age and weight and everything on a piece of paper and my mom called the vet as soon as she got to work. He was on vacation for several weeks (he's not a very good vet anyway) so they recommended two others. One was in surgery, the other didn't feel qualified to handle the situation. So a bit of calling around goes on and she ended up talking to a vet at Tufts University (which has amazing facilities and great veterinarians) She then picked me up early from school and we went and got the car all ready for Shanti to be in the back seat with blankets and set off. He was in a poor state, crying and straining, but still getting a few drops out, but he got in the car and was very good for the 2 hour car ride there. Once there, we checked in and he got a paper collar for identification and we went into the large animal emergency facility (he was the fifth emergency of the day). Two vets and about 5 students came into the room and asked all the typical questions, then they ran bloodwork and found everything to be normal, except he was dehydrated. Then they did an ultrasound and I got to see his bladder. It was very luckily not ruptured and not super full. Then they had me walk him around a bit and checked his reflexes, which were good. Throughout the examination they were extremely understanding and professional and talked me through everything they were doing. We decided to have them remove the tip of his urethra, which is the narrowest part, so they gave him an anesthetic and he was down in about thirty seconds, on a nice soft mat. He wasn't completely out, but more or less in la-la land. They gave my mother and I the option of leaving, as they were going to insert a needle/catheter into his neck and it was a bit bloody, so my mom went to fill out paperwork and I stayed to watch. They had already shaved and disinfected his neck extremely well, and he was just about asleep, lying down with one of the students holding his head up. They stuck a needle attached to a tube into his vein and spent a good amount of time fiddling with it then they wrapped his neck so they could hook up an IV or inject anything else they needed to without poking him again. They positioned him on his side and put a towel over his eyes to keep him calm and then squirted something numbing into his urethra. I left then because I didn't want to see them do the actual cutting. He is in the very best of hands and is going to be extremely well taken care of. He is staying the night to be monitored and they will call in the morning if everything goes alright. I am really hoping everything works out because everything they did, with the procedure and giving fluids and bloodwork and keeping him over night will cost $1000. If he needs actual surgery it will cost $2500 and I just cannot pay that, even though he is my darling baby. Though the outlook is only fair, I am very happy that he is in such wonderful hands, the very best, really. The people who dealt with us were incredibly knowledgeable and caring, and talked us through everything, including the cost and made sure we were comfortable. Not only were they nice to my mother and I, they were wonderful and understanding with Shanti and even though they were poking and prodding him, he was very calm and showed complete trust in everyone there. Since we caught it pretty early his chances are fairly good. At least I know I did everything in my power to make him better, and he is not in needless pain. I was almost crying on the way up listening to him give a grunt or squeal every time we hit a bump on the road and am still quite upset and sad now, but I'm hopeful that things will be alright. If all goes as planned, I'll pick him up tomorrow afternoon. If things go differently, I'll cross that bridge when we get there, but keep your fingers crossed everyone. I'll give an update when I have more news.
     
  10. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    Massachusetts
    Wow, well if he's in tufts then he's in the best hands possible right now. Though, as you mentioned, they are quite expensive.

    I will continue to pray for him. :pray:
     
  11. liz

    liz Active Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Your handsome little man is in my thots and prayers. He is in great hands and I pray that he comes home tomorrow.
     
  12. Thanatos

    Thanatos New Member

    937
    Mar 16, 2009
    Lake Ariel, Pa
    :pray: good luck to you
     
  13. PACE

    PACE New Member

    404
    Oct 8, 2007
    Mass
    Thanks guys for the kind words and encouragement, it really means a lot!

    Update as of late last night:
    The procedure where they cut the tip of the urethra off didn't help. The stones are up farther and they can't get to them. Shanti's bladder has not been drained, but it is still not overly full. The vet told me that in an extreme emergency she could poke a needle into his bladder to drain it but then some urine would get into his abdomen and there is a high chance of infection or other complications, and the stones would still be there. They ordered a special medicine that is said to work 80% of the time. I guess it will be injected into him and it should dissolve the stones.

    Update this morning:
    They were still waiting for the special medicine to arrive. Shanti had a good night, he was up and walking around in his stall and eating hay. He's on a light painkiller and was made as comfortable as possible. The medicine often has to be administered twice so he will not be coming home today, so hopefully we can pick him up tomorrow (Friday) afternoon, but who knows at this point.
     
  14. SDK

    SDK New Member

    Jun 26, 2008
    Yucaipa ca
    oh this is just sad.. we had to do this with our cat thomas.. I hope everything works out
     
  15. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Oh wow....I will pray for him.....what a terrible ordeal ..... :( :pray: :pray:
     
  16. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    OH poor guy -- I hope the medicine works wounders for him :pray:
     
  17. RowdyKidz

    RowdyKidz Senior Member

    Apr 2, 2009
    NW Ohio
    I am so sorry. I know how you guys feel. I am praying that he will get better. Be glad you didn't use local vets, I had one mess up trying to get stones out and we took ours to Ohio State, he died on the on the examing table. His insides were all messed up.
    A lesson well learned.

    Anyway, alfalfa, I've been told is NOT good for wethers. 2 of my boys had stones when we had fed it. We switched to grass hay last year and haven't had a problem.

    Good luck. I am PRAYING your boy will come through. :pray:
     
  18. PACE

    PACE New Member

    404
    Oct 8, 2007
    Mass
    The medicine arrived yesterday late morning and they injected it directly into his bladder. He was sedated for it and did well. Unfortunately they didn't get a full does in for some reason or another so they did it again in the afternoon. It takes about 12 hours to tell how it's going, so they waited. He started to dribble a bit more, but was still blocked, so they did the procedure again today. After that they waited but he woke up groggy and has been that way ever since. Again, it didn't work as well as they had hoped. It's not looking too good right now, and after this, the surgery (which is actually $3,000) is the only option... They will probably go ahead and try the medicine once more tomorrow, but after that it's uncertain. I don't want my baby to be in any more pain than he has to be, and if he's not going to get better, I don't want to prolong his suffering. I'm trying to stay optimistic, as there is a chance it could still work, but things could be going better than they are. When I talk to the vet in the morning I'll give an update.

    RowdyKidz, I have heard that alfalfa and grain are both bad, but this fall there was a mistake with my entire winter supply of grass hay was ruined. We put it in a trailer where we thought it would stay clean and dry, then the roof somehow caved in during a storm. In any case, I didn't have any hay so decided to try the pellets and boost grain intake for extra nutrients, just over the winter. I guess it is a lesson learned, a very harsh lesson :( My other guys will be getting a diet change and so will Shanti if he pulls through...
     
  19. cdtrum

    cdtrum New Member

    Aug 25, 2008
    Northern Indiana
    Oh, I am praying for Shanti.......I have 2 little wethers and it is soooo hard to decide how to feed them with all the conflicting opinions out there......I have heard NO alfalfa and then on another forum I was told that I should be feeding them either alfalfa hay with grain or grass hay with alfalfa pellets.....and then someone else will say oh no don't :shrug: ! One lady told me just doesn't feed her wethers anything but grass hay and NO grain because of the conflicting opinions.......if some figures it out please let me know!
     
  20. PACE

    PACE New Member

    404
    Oct 8, 2007
    Mass
    Thanks everyone so much. It really means a lot to have you here to console me and I know only you goat people can understand. I am very very upset right now because I have just decided a few hours ago to put Shanti down. The vet just called and told me that he is no longer urinating at all. He is also not straining or crying, so she is a bit perplexed. She said one reason could be that his bladder ruptured, but last time she checked it was intact. She was very kind and told me that we are pretty much out of options, but she said that since he didn't drink much yesterday he is dehydrated so they're going to give him fluids to see if that will make him pee, and if that doesn't help (which I am pretty sure it won't, and she doesn't think it will either) she offered to have me bring him home and see how he does for a few days until he has to be put down. I know she only said this because she is being kind to me and knows how much I love him, and really the humane thing to do would be to end his suffering peacefully and not bring him on a 2 hour car ride only to have him see him buddies one more time and then have to go in the car again to a different vet to be put to sleep. I couldn't say the words to her, and still haven't said them to my mom because every time I try I start to cry, but Shanti deserves better than that. So I think I'll go later today to Tuffts to be with him when he goes to sleep.