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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My goats are getting watery jaws. Could it be something other then bottle jaw? I wormed them in April-May. Two weeks ago I noticed one of my nannies had a watery jaw and my first reaction was it must be bottle jaw from worm load to I decided to worm my whole herd, except the kids. Well her jaw cleared up within a week so I thought I was on the right track. Then last Saturday I noticed she was kinda of not herself so I gave her Vit. B, ProBios and electrolytes to help her bounce back. That night she died! She had two six week old kids. It seems like I am always asking for help..... and here I go again. I have two more with watery jaws and I am right in the middle of the 3X10days worming cycle. Is there something else I may be overlooking? One nanny two weeks ago cleared up and is just fine and now a six month buck has it and one the other nannies is starting. I am so
concerned that I might lose these...... The buck was wormed 20 days ago with valbazen and then 10 days ago with ivermec. The nannies have had one dose 10 days ago of ivermec. Shall I continue with the 3X10days worming cycle? What else can I be doing?
Also, any help on how to best take care of my six week orphans? I am milking one of my mama goats and feeding them the milk, the one has taken the bottle pretty good the other is not really interested but they do eat grass well. Should I worm them also if they are in with all the other goats that are getting wormed?
I am so close to selling my herd, because it seems like I can't get this right. I have buried too many goats! 2 this year. It doesn't help that I bought them all at the auction. Looking back I see that I have probably just inherited everyone else's problems.
HELP!
 

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Bottle jaw is most often caused by an overload of barber pole worms. 'Regular' ivermectin won't kill them, you need to use Ivomec Plus. Check their eyelids and gums - are they pink or pale? Barber poles are bloodsuckers so they cause anemia as well, which will be indicated by pale eyelids and gums. If your goats are anemic, they'll need some Red Cell to help them build their blood back up.

When in doubt, a fecal test is always a good idea. Even a small animal vet will usually be able to do a fecal test for you.
 

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with bottle jaw you need to also treat for anemia..I would also stick with Valbazen as it also kills the liver fluke worm..Ivomec plus also does but plain ivomec does not..the 3 times ten dayas apart then againin 30 days is a good plan.

To treat anemia you need to dose with Iron, either injectable or red cell ( 6 cc per 100#) I would double the first dose and treat daily for a week then go once a week until you see color, you need VIt B 12 injectable to help rebuild red blood cells, this can be given daily, Vit B complex helps with appitite and energy..feed higher protien feed to help in this as well..green leaves and alfalfa help in this...plenty of fluids ( electro recipe to follow) Try not to stress them out by chasing htem down for meds..provide shade if there are no trees...

Homemade Electrolytes
A half gallon of hot water
2-6 Tablespoons of Unsulphured Blackstrap Molasses (or wht you have on hand or honey)_
1-2 Tablespoons of Either Sea Salt, Epsom Salt, Baking Soda or Table Salt.
1 cup of Apple Cider Vinegar

Mix well and drench or let them drink it.
a link on Anemia
http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/anemiaingoats.html
 

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Oh On the 6 week old kids..try putting honey on the nipple of the bottle..they like the taste and might make it easier to get them to take the bottle. It will take some patients and work but 6 weeks is too young to ween..they need that milk...If you can have a fecal done on them then that would be good..include a cocci test..if not then I would give them Valbazen and also treat for cocci

Im very sorry this has been a hard start for you...my first year was super bad too...but you gain knowledge even through the bad stuff...I had to keep my focus on why I was doing what I do..9 years later Im still at it : ) dont be hard on yourself.... wormer was the right protocal...know you know to treat for anemia as well and from what I read you are not afraid to get aggressive in your treatment..and we are all here to help you succeed...keep us posted
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
So the Ivomec I have been using is not treating the bottle jaw problem I have. Do I understand that correctly?
The Valbazen will right?
What about Cydectin? I have that also wouls that be a help in this situation?
I have been dosing:
Ivomec at 1 cc injected per 40lbs.
Valbazen 1cc per 20lbs orally of course
What is the dose for cydectin?
I have Vit. B Which is dosed at 5 cc per 100lbs. I also have dextran iron which suggests 1 cc per 100 lbs. and then repeat in 2-4weeks.
I will go ahead and worm again tomorrow with either the valbazen or the cydectin should I treat all the goats with b 12 and iron or just the ones that show signs of bottle jaw?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I was wrong I have B complex not B12 or is it the same thing? I know it has B12 in it.
Also, I just came in from feeding the little kids and Polka Dot did take the bottle along with her brother. I sure am glad for that.
 

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Valbazen and Ivomec plus are the only wormers for liver fluke..you were not treating wrong..Barpole worms also cause bottle jaw..but because liver fluke also can its best to cover all bases...I give Valbazen 1 cc per 10#...goats needs a bit high dose ...
B complex is a good support vitamin... If you donthave B-12 continue the B complex..it has some 12 in it..Red cell is oral and is a horse iron vit. supplement and can be found as most tractor supplies and feed supply stores..its a red liquid given orally..But I would use the draxxin injectable iron, it works faster than red cell.. dose for two days then once a week until you see color return to the eye lids
per tenensseemeatgoats
Dextran iron injectables are available OTC in most states. While it is possible to overdose a goat with iron (and copper), this probably won't happen even with daily dosing (except in kids) because rebuilding red blood cells occurs slowly. However, it is best to err on the side of safety and dose the iron daily for a few days and then weekly thereafter.
I would worm everyone but only do iron for those who have very pale to white eye lids...
 

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Also you dont want to over worm them..so the ones who have had Vabazen already, wait ten days and retreat...over worming is stressful ...helping them with the anemia is what is important while the wormers do their job...you have a good start going ;)

So happy Poka dot decided to eat ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I checked the eyelids this morning and found most of them pale to white. Only three of my nannies had nice pink eyelids.
So I dosed the pale ones with iron (dextran) and vit. b complex. I will repeat both tomorrow and then repeat the iron in one week. Dose this sound right?
One of my six month bucks, who has not shown any signs of bottle jaw is kinda laying around today, on inspection of his eyelids they were indeed white so he of course was dosed as well. All the others seem to have a good appetite and are eating well, but not him. I am getting ready to mix up a batch of HappyBleats electrolytes and offer that to him. Is there something else I can be doing?
Also, do kids get anemic if their mama's are. Since I was checking all the eyelids I checked the kids too, and some of them are pale as well. I have a natural iron supplement that I have used in the past for sheep (it is actually a product for humans called ferro) wondering if I should give them each a drop.
I have seven beautiful kids all within 6-8 weeks of age. I am on pins and needles concerned about them with all this going on with my nannies. I noticed this morning that three of them have some loose manure, wondering if this would be a good age to give them a dose of Valbazen since they have been grazing in the meadow with the nannies? And is this the age I should vaccinate them for CD&T?
Just a side note: All the nannies have very normal droppings and looking very healthy, with shiny coats and all. Could the bottle jaw be a lingering anemia problem and could it be possible that the worms are gone and I just need to treat for anemia OR does bottle mean that worms are still present?
 

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Correct on the iron dosing, For your buck, make sure to worm him too if you haven't yet....offer green leaves to encourage him to eat some..the B complex will help that too...keeping him hydrated is most important..

For the kids: they should be wormed as well and the ferro iron or red cell would be a good idea if they are white..I would also begin a cocci treatment on them.
for CD&T I give that at 2 1/2 to 3 months, then a booster 21 -30 days later, some do it sooner...

Bottle jaw is Edema...I was explained it this way: Worms leave small holes in the intestines...when the goat grazes, fluid drains from the intestines to the jaw area and when they are at rest most the fluid seeps back..so you see less swelling in the morning..it takes time for the holes to heal so the edema may take a while..I had one doe who kept it for almost two weeks! This fluid is also settling around heart and lungs so its important not to stress them by chasing them to medicate ..
 

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your welcome..
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I just talked to my local med supply store and she said she has dimethox which she suggests 1 cc per 5 lbs. does this sound right and is it a good option? How many doses do I give? She thought it is the same as baycox. What say you?
 

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It is not the same as baycox as it is a different drug, baycox is toltrazuril. Dimethox works really well and so does the baycox, but baycox is typically just given once instead of 5 days in a row like you do with the dimethox. I don't know the dosage for the dimethox, but you do want to give it for 5 days in a row. Baycox has to be ordered, so I would go with the dimethox for now as you need to use it ASAP.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Okay, Thanks
I really need help with that six month old buck that just went off his feed this morning.
He is just laying around breathing heavy. Reminds me so much of the nanny I lost last week, but she had bottle jaw, the buck dose not. He is 60lbs. is a beautiful red buck with shiny hair and meat on his bones that was doing just fine until this morning. Now he looks like he is on his way to dying. I gave him 1 1/2 cc of dextran iron and 3cc of vit. b complex this morning. What else can I do ? Please ?
 

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Take his temp..he maybe dealing with something totally different then just worms..
temp should be 101.5-103.5
 

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Dimethox is 1 cc per 5# day one and 1 cc per 10# day 2-5
 

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Yes, definitely get a temp on the buckling. Heavy. jerky breathing with a fever usually indicates pneumonia and he will need to be started on antibiotics to clear that up, also good to give benadryl to help keep the air passages cleared and clear out his lungs.
 

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yes, I use liquid 5-8 cc for a kid...
 
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