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sydmurph
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Calling all goaters! My ND buck has a strange skin condition.
Here is the history. All goats in question are 2013 spring babies. Buck (Brownie) came from a herd of goats where another herd mate had suspected CL and a really bad case of delayed floppy kid...I can't remember what it's called when the dam doesn't get enough copper in preg...regardless, she died a few months ago. His sister and her brother are thriving on another farm, so it seemed to be isolated.
My lamancha x saanen doe came to me with these same spots. I called the vet. A) the whole heard had a chronic cough and were pretty boogery. He gave an antib shot to her for the cough. I followed up with ivermectin x 3 doses, whole herd. Vet said it wasn't ringworm and not mites or lice. He didnt know what it was.
I dusted the herd and poultry with Sevin anyway, and applied topical antifungal to her patches.
Fast forward a month or so, now she is clear and my buck has it bad. Yet the pygmy wether that is penned with these two is in incredible health. His coat is shiny and there is not a speck of this flakiness on him. Though he has the cough too.
I give goal maker mineral on the feed. In fact when Brownie started sporting the patches, I upped it and I noticed their urine was a bit on the dark side, *oops*, so I scaled back.

So. All three with cough that ivermectin didnt eradicate...flaky dandruffy skin that seems to be contagious yet not.

I feed free choice grassy hay, 16% dairy ration (had them on a kid ration in the beginning), and I supplement with about 1/4 mixed grain. They get occasional graze and no people treats. They have been on clean, dry shavings since the beginning. What am I looking at here? And the last picture took funny, it looks like a slit... When I pull the fur out of the patches, this is what it looks like. The patches are random and isolated. Worse around base of ears.

My border collie hangs out with the goats all the time. I'm ruling out mange because he is in perfect skin health.

I'm thinking zinc deficiency.

Have at her, what do you guys all think it could be?
 

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sydmurph
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Sorry it's hard to flip back and forth to see what i actually posted. I think I forgot some pics. I know the quality isn't great. It's me, a cranky buck and an iPhone LOL guess who won??
 

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For the skin issue: My first thought is mites, dd your vet do a skin scrape?...next mineral..If mites have been ruled out, focus on mineral..offer free choice loose minerals , if your area is copper and selenium def. I would supplement..

Mix equal parts ground flax seed with wheat germ in enough coconut oil to make a paste...offer 2 tablespoons a day to each effected goat..This helped my Saanens patchy,flaky skin...

on the cough...lung worms, cold and allergies all come to mind..since the ivomec didnt help I would consider allergeies..is the ground, feed, hay dusty? Do they eat off ground or out of hay feeders and grain buckets? Have you taken their temp ?

Give Benadryl daily for a week and see if it helps...if you have dusty hay, mist it down before feeding it..not soaking wet..just enough to cut the dust..you can do the same with grain..lightly..
 

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sydmurph
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Vet didnt do skin scrape, he was pretty confident it wasn't mites. Which the Sevin and ivomec would have nailed, though? Was I right or wrong on that one?
As for the hay? I thought that too. So I took it out for a few weeks to see. No change. It's my neighbors hay, and it's moldy or dusty at all. As for mineral supplement, isn't that what the Goalmaker is for? Goalmaker is a mineral premix...it looks like coarse brown salt. I think purina makes something similar in the US.
 

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sydmurph
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Oops I meant the hay is NOT moldy or dusty. Also forgot to mention that all feeders/buckets are plenty high off the ground.
 

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What kind of shavings are you using for their bedding? It could be an irritation of some sort. I've heard of it with pine shavings and cedar shavings, as well.
 

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Looks like what my buck gets ... unexplained dandruff, with odd spots ... I don't know what it is, but I treat him by dusting with Flowers of sulphur (deal to lice quite easily and naturally, and good for skin conditions besides) and give him a tsp of sulphur and a tbsp of vegetable oil every day for a week ... after that I scale back the sulphur to weekly and it seems to prevent it coming back. I keep the oil going at least a couple times per week though. Flax seed oil (or simply gorund linseed) would probably be better. You could also try a few fish oil capsules if you think its dry flaky type skin.

I don't know what it is with my boy, I've never found lice ... don't know, but after much experimentation the above has always worked on him.
 

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Mites can be very hard to get rid of..here is a good article to read on mites...wont hurt to treat again but a bit more aggressivly...Any parasite adds undo stress to the goat..be sure to check for anemia just in case..add Vit B complex to their daily until you get it under control..

http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/mites.html

Aggressive treatment is necessary to kill mites on goats and multiple applications are necessary. No one-time-use treatment will work. Hair must be re-growing on the goat's body parts before treatment can be considered effective. Long-haired goats may have to be sheared for mite eradication to be successful. Since mites can live for a few days off the goat and in the environment before they die, sheds and bedding areas must also be cleaned and treated. All goats in the herd must be treated -- not just the ones with obvious mite infestation.
 

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sydmurph
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Hm...I'm hearing a few votes for mites and to up the minerals also. Now that I really considered it, we have coyotes hundreds of feet from our neighboring homes and surrounding area. I mean it wouldn't take much for local coyotes to tramp through the hayfield that's then cut, baled, and stored in the barn to infect the goats, would it?
Is that far fetched? I'm going to treat as mange (sigh.) and see what I can do re: remineralizing the herd.

Why is it always the one thing you thing/hope its isn't? That's it. I'm renaming Murphy's law to Goat law. LOL
 

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I hear ya...just when you think everyone doing great...some one will get poopy...it just happens lol..

as the article points out,.treating mites is a pain..I would do Ivomec or ivomec plus 3 times one a week apart...1 cc per 40# sub Q (must be injected)
..doing a topical powder or spray might help speed recovery...
cleaning and treating bedding and loafing sheds...
best wishes
 

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I'm watching you
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Duh, if you put here under a black light fungus will glow. Then you can rule that out...
 

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sydmurph
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Sheeh, I did not know that about fungus:blacklight....hm, good thing it's Halloween, I bet they're everywhere now!
 

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Could very well be an allergy also. I has a couple of wethers with these same symptoms. I treated the same way, also had scrapings done and finally a small biopsy. Nothing..... Thought it was rain scald, mites and mange nothing was working or helping. I finally put one of them in my wife's little car and drove him two hours to the top veterinarian college in new England. They were stumped. No mites mange nothing , just really bad skin finally one of my local vets asked me if I was willing for one year to stop all vaccinations, worming and rabies shots. I really had no options left. During this first year and a half we did fecals and drew blood just to make sure they were healthy without all the meds. By the time we reached two years their skin and coats were beautiful. They are brothers and both of them were allergic to either the wormer vaccine boosters or rabies. I hope you find out what's going on, skin and coat problems can be exhausting sometimes and I also feel genetics can play a roll also.
 

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Daniel
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I've seen that before. We had mites on our Llama and that is exactly what it looked like around his ears. Though our vet did not diagnose it until later (and too late) our Llama was also EXTREMELY anemic. Please treat the mites, but make sure you don't have an internal and external parasite problem also. Get a fecal sample checked IMMEDIATELY to make sure you know what you are dealing with, and possibly even have a blood draw to check the red cell count. We lost our Llama. Good luck! Daniel
 

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sydmurph
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Oh my. So many great ideas...and so weird I 'cured' one and she had never had it back...so I want to go mange, yet the lack of contagion is suspect. Nevertheless!!!!
Today I have purchased a vitamin panel paste, intramuscular selenium, and noromectin. Also a 50lb bag of BOSS for some good coat oils. Noromectin will be administered tomorrow; as well as selenium. Please pass on any tips you may have about dosing or technique; I will scour the thread tonight. And I'm upping the zinc with silly human supplements. It's all I can get my hands on right now....
Bonus, the selenium called 'selon-e' has the vit E which could also be a good thing too. The Selon wants me to do intramuscular but I'm nervous. What is the harm in doing sub-q?
 

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I'm watching you
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The Selon-E can be given sub-Q making extra sure to get it under all the skin layers. This is how I've always done it. I do not inject Avermectin type products so, you'll need to ask Cathy (Happybleats) about that.

When supplementing zinc you'll want to watch for copper deficiency. There is a delicate balance been the 2 minerals.

It isn't uncommon for only one or two goats out of a herd to have mites. They attack the ones who have lowered immune function, the ones being pushed out of the feeder, etc.
 

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Do a search on "alpacas witches brew"

You should find a link for Northwest Alpacas. He has a great writeup about mites and a recipe for an external mix. Works great. Put it on once a day instead of every 3.
 

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sydmurph
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
The Selon-E can be given sub-Q making extra sure to get it under all the skin layers. This is how I've always done it. I do not inject Avermectin type products so, you'll need to ask Cathy (Happybleats) about that.

When supplementing zinc you'll want to watch for copper deficiency. There is a delicate balance been the 2 minerals.

It isn't uncommon for only one or two goats out of a herd to have mites. They attack the ones who have lowered immune function, the ones being pushed out of the feeder, etc.
Can you elaborate on the Cu/Zn comment? Is it one if those things that too much of one depletes the other, is that what you're referring to?
 

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I do Ivomec product Sub Q 1 cc per 40#..for mites you want to do this 3 times 10 days apart..It does sting so expect a reaction...I Sub Q where the neck meets the body..pull up a nice tent and inject there...all sub Q can be done at this location...another spot if over the rib cage..

 

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