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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have 2 grade Mini Nubian doelings as most of you know. I've been trying to figure out all the ins and outs of showing them in 4-H. I found out they needed tattooed to be shown. So contacted a director and I will paste the response below. I know I'm new to goats and will/have probably made some mistakes but, now I feel like a bad person for purchasing my girls. I wanted good family milkers, something small enough for my boys to handle but still with a descent production that's why I went with Minis. There is no way I could have afforded the 300-400.00 for for good registered does at this point. When I was in 4-H our horses didn't have to be AQHA world qualifiers to still go compete, and have fun. I guess that's what I though 4-H was about, goats included. Maybe I'm reading too much into it...but I feel like I just got a slap on the wrist even though I did everything right by my goats. My vet disbudded them at 10 days old, I've done lots of research and asked for lots of help on here. I'm going to have them tested for CAE etc. before I ever breed them...just a vent guys. Sorry. :(

Response:

You would choose a tattoo - since they are not registered with a breed registry it can be anything you want - including the date of birth or year of birth is good.You can ask your 4H leader to help you with the tattooing process.






I do not know who you bought these goats from, but I am going to speak very frankly and say their conduct seems very unethical. Animals should ALWAYS be disbudded and tattooed prior to sale , particularly if these animals are going to be shown in 4H exhibitions. Disbudding needs to be done within the first 2 weeks of life. In addition, they are required per AZ Dept of Ag laws to provide you with a hauling paper which is a small blue paper with a picture of a goat or a sheep on it and a red number in the upper right hand corner AND CAE test results showing these animals came from negative parents or were fed purchased colostrum. This sounds harsh and I apologize for that, but I am sad to report that the "Craigs List specials' have been one of the biggest detriments to the 4H program here.
 

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Aww, I'm sorry the responder made you feel bad. They do not know you or the specifics of your situation, so maybe they were just trying to be helpful (albeit frank) in their response. They are probably responding that way due to past experiences, and not because of anything you did. Maybe other's that are knowledgable in 4-H can answer about that part, but please don't feel bad about your goats. It sounds to me like minis are a perfect fit for your family.
 

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Sorry about your bad experiences. It does sounds like whoever the person is is frustrated at some of the people selling stock to 4H'ers.

You sound responsible and loving. Keep it up! A lot of people started out in goats with unregistered stock. Nothing wrong with that. I love buying good grade does, getting them recorded NOA (native on appearance) and breeding up to American status. You showed responsibility in getting them disbudded and will be getting them tested for CAE. GOOD FOR YOU!!!!!! Shrug off the bad and look forward to the good.
 

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Im sorry the resposes were less than helpful..I know nothing of showing and 4 H rules..but wanted to encourage you....I do know with American Dairy GOat Assoc. you can register Does "Native on appearance" not sure how it works with the assoc. of minis..but I bet I will learn : ) Im starting Mini Saanen this next season....sounds like you are taking time to do all you can assure these girls are healthy and well cared for...CAE testing is wise...best wishes with your girls and by the way...we love pictures :D
 

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7 does - 2 bucks - 1 wether
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Just because goats are not disbudded or tattooed does not make them less valuable animals, IMO. I think that's wrong of the responder. Keep the faith and enjoy your girls. :)
 

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I'm watching you
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Well, the only hauling chit I know of is for haulers who haul other peoples goats. They have never pertained to owners.

We can make this all really nice and legal...It's a little process but, not difficult.
#1 Call 1-800-USDA-TAG explain to the nice man that you have 2 female 4-h goats and that you need a premise ID for a tattoo. He will take some info about you and your goats, nothing invasive, then he will send you an ID number. (and a box of tags just put them up for now)
That premise number is a legal farm Identification number. It means that goats carrying that number were from your place. Same as a Registration number.
#2 Tattoo them with your premise ID and a individual number so one would be AZ123 01 next AZ123 02 etc. Put the tag with that number with said goats paperwork.
#3 Print out and fill out 2 of these papers, one for each goat. The breeder does not have to sign it. http://www.adga.org/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=89&func=fileinfo&id=26
check Nigerian and Nubian both for breed type.
#4 Send said form to ADGA with your non-member fees and they should be back in about 2 weeks.

Your goats now have legal ID from both the USDA and ADGA...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thank you all for the kind words. I understand where the responder is coming from. I know there are a lot of irresponsible breeders out there but, I did my research and I WANTED a Mini Nubian, I saw both parents, and have found a reputable Mini Nubian breeder who has an MDGA 6th gen buck who I will breed my girls to. At least this way their kids can be recorded grades and eventually bred up to MDGA registration.

Thank you again goathiker! I will do that ASAP! You are just full of good info! :cool:

Here are a few recent pics of one of my girl Sugar...Cinnamon was too busy trying to eat the camera to get a good one lol.
 

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They are beautiful!!! Yes Goathiker is a smorgaborg of info...:D
 

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4-H has sure changed since I was in it too! Back in the '60's and '70's, it didn't matter what the pedigree was, the entire 4-H experience was to learn
how to care for your project, get along with others and have fun! We were poor farm kids, no registered critters, but decent animals. We never had a
grand champion beef steer, but I won first place in showmanship! When I took my horse (the best horse in the world, to me), I did great in horsemanship and
showmanship, but since he was a grade animal, he wasn't a grand champion either. It didn't matter, I learned, had fun and was in 4-H for over 10 yrs.!

Now, it is all regimented, the parents do everything for the kids, hover over every little thing- it sure isn't like it was!

I sell alot of my kids on Craigslist- but I also make sure the kids are healthy before they leave- most are not tatoo'd- I didn't register them and I don't think
I should be responsible for their future health! (If my farm tatoo was there- anything the goat picked up could make me prove I didn't have Johnes, Cl, etc.). I don't charge enough to sell registered whethers! That is why they were whethered, they aren't a quality that I think they should be.
 

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I'm not addicted - I'm in love!
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The responder was not getting after you at all. They were upset with the seller! Some of what they said may be true for everyone, but some of it may just be opinion.
Sounds like you are doing a great job with your girls, and they are truly beautiful! I am partial to light buckskin since that was the color of my sweet Lizzie Lou, who died last year. Her daughter, Annie, still lives here, looks exactly like her, and is an absolute doll! So that coloring has pleasant associations for me. :) :love:
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
The responder was not getting after you at all. They were upset with the seller! Some of what they said may be true for everyone, but some of it may just be opinion.
Sounds like you are doing a great job with your girls, and they are truly beautiful! I am partial to light buckskin since that was the color of my sweet Lizzie Lou, who died last year. Her daughter, Annie, still lives here, looks exactly like her, and is an absolute doll! So that coloring has pleasant associations for me. :) :love:
I know they weren't getting after me personally, I think it was the last part that got me. Saying craigslist specials were a detriment to the 4-H program. Basically saying my girls are CL junk :( I just purchased what I felt was right for my family at this time and I love them! I love Sugar's color! I think she's just beautiful. Cinnamon her sister is much darker, almost like a caramel with a big white spot on her forehead. I will get better pics of her too :p
 

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Goat Girl
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The one thing you will need to check on is AZ does have a form you have to fill out in order to take goats to the fair. They were just starting it when I left and I had to fill one out for each person who bought a kid from me, I also had to have ones for my goats. I think it is basically a form where you right down the goats info, ID number(s), markings and where they are going. If I remember right they take this instead of having to get health papers on them from the vet (I don't remember ever needing health papers from the vet on my goats). Your 4-H leader should know everything else that you need. I've never heard of the state requiring a CAE test on goats, that may be something new or something the responder made up. I think you are doing everything right, and at least you are working on getting it sorted out now and not 2 days before fair :)
 

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Oh I forgot. This paper must accompany your order for ADGA ID certificates. Makes things much quicker and easier. Just leave the membership number part blank. They will send back a number for you to use if you ever deal with them again.
When you fill out the ADGA applications make sure to specify ear tattoos not tag numbers. :)

http://www.adga.org/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=89&func=startdown&id=37
 

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7 does - 2 bucks - 1 wether
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Your goats are not trash, I post my goats on CL when they are for sale. Does that automatically make them trash?? Uh oh! ;)
 

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I agree with many of the posts before. The person who replied to you is out of line. You're goats are not any lower then any "registered purebred". 4-H is not about being registered or fancy it's about learning and having fun.
 

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Saying craigslist specials were a detriment to the 4-H program. Basically saying my girls are CL junk :blue:
:( :hug: Not true! People often sell high quality animals on craigslist!
 

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Well , hopefully we changed your mind of any doubts you may have of your beautiful goats :) They ARE valuable , as valuable as any other goat regardless of where they are sold , just remember that ;)
Take everything with a grain of salt , you have to nowadays.

Now , we need more pictures , cause I just love their markings , so very pretty !
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thank you everyone! I think they're just wonderful. I was just surprised at the response I got. As others have said, I thought 4-H was about having fun and learning responsibility for your animals. It's not like I'm trying to take them to breed shows or something. Just wanted my boys to be involved with dairy goats :) Goathiker, I will call this week and get their tattoos all set up. Thank you so much for all the info. PtGoats, I will check into that form as well. My oldest is just turning 8 so we have another year to get them all set up for Fair. Thank you all so much the additional info and encouragement. I just want good milk for my family, and I'm hooked for life now! Goats are just wonderful, I can't imagine not having them now :) My hubby even says we could never move to a "neighborhood" again because we couldn't bring the girls with us ;)
 

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We all know what they say about assumptions.

I've sold all my kids on craigslist. I have a grade ND doe who milks over 1/2 gallon and I "breed up" to a registered buck with traits that improve upon my does and add more milk. I test my herd. I vet my animals. We disbud & band as required We spend hours each day with them...we walk them and hike with them and groom them. I screen my buyers and make them sign care contracts and follow up to see how they are adjusting...sending food home with them. Assumptions...yes, the common substitute for good old fashioned educated, informed decision making and discretion....
 
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