Wether with urinary calculi

3042 Views 15 Replies 6 Participants Last post by Bambi, Nov 20, 2013

Bambi

Discussion Starter · Nov 19, 2013

Over the weekend , we had a wether with urinary calculi. The vet came out and got the large stone out that was blocking the channel. But our wether is still not feeling well . Does anybody else have an experience with a goat with u.c.? When do they start feeling better? I am worried he may have more stones or possibly damaged his bladder or kidneys. This is the first time I've experienced a goat with u.c. I have been raising goats for eighteen years. This was and is a scary thing.

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ksalvagno

· #2 · Nov 19, 2013

Didn't the vet have you give him ammonium chloride? Probably some banamine would help with pain.

Bambi

Discussion Starter · #3 · Nov 19, 2013

No, our vet says ammonium chloride doesn't work in our area. But I went to the feed store yesterday and got goat minerals with ammonium chloride anyway. I started him on that this morning. I asked our vet about Banamine but he didn't think he would need it.

ksalvagno

· #4 · Nov 19, 2013

What was the reasoning? I have never heard that before.

Chopsgoats

· #5 · Nov 19, 2013

I have had experience with UC!!!! Ammonioum chloride right away, if he has UC he is in pain give him banamine. Has he gone pee at all?? Or just dribbling out?? Is this vet really familiar with goats?? I've had to cut the tip of my wethers penis off so he could pee. Most of the time they will not pass the stones without some kind of intervention.

Chopsgoats

· #6 · Nov 19, 2013

You will also need to change his diet if he is prone to UC , just a good grass hay and mineral mix, that's it. My vet told me to keep checking his pee for the next few days to be sure everything is breaking up and passing. It's could literally be like peeing sand crystals. Good luck I know what your going through

goathiker

· #7 · Nov 19, 2013

Ammonium Chloride works ONLY on Calcium Phosphate stones. While they are the most common stone, they are not the only ones goats get. Before suggesting feed changes, it would be good to know what kind of stones the OP is dealing with. What if they are silica stones caused from eating too much grass already?

Stones can be composed of several different things, singly or several minerals mixed together. The best thing to do is ask your vet what stones are predominant in your area and go from there to devise a prevention plan.

happybleats

· #8 · Nov 19, 2013

That is interesting info Goathiker...never thought about silica stones!!

Chopsgoats

· #9 · Nov 20, 2013

Stones regularly associated with calculi formation in goats include silicate, calcium (calcium carbonate, calcium oxalate), and phosphate (magnesium ammonium phosphate called struvite). While calculi can form in any geographical region, silicate stones are generally limited to goats grazing forages grown on western pastures that have excess soil silica content.
The normal alkalinity found in ruminant urine favors the formation of urinary stones. Reducing the pH to acidify the urine reduces the likelihood of crystal formation. To acidify urine, goats receiving high grain or concentrate diets can be fed ammonium chloride*
Ammonium chloride is a salt which also helps in water intake.....

Goat urine pH tends to be alkaline but varies with the type of diet and the length of time since eating. Phosphate crystals form more easily in alkaline urine, and silicates in acid urine. Bacteria in urine can produce ammonia that makes the urine pH much more alkaline.
Adding ammonium chloride However, the chloride ion itself may cause the goat to drink more water and dilute the urine.

This is what ive done

1) Drench with ammonium chloride, 3g/22lbs.
2) Give a shot of acepromazine, if at all possible.
3) Snip the pizzle.
4) Give a shot of banamine, 1ml/100lbs.
5) Give a shot of dexamethasone, 1ml/20lbs.
6) Give a shot of PenG, 1ml/15lbs.

Then, I'd:

1) Continue the ammonium chloride for a week.
2) Continue the dexamethasone for about a week, tapering after that.
3) Continue the PenG so long as the Dex is being used.
4) Cut back the grain and add calcium to the diet.

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happybleats

· #10 · Nov 20, 2013

very informative

wildegoats0426

· #11 · Nov 20, 2013

Chopsgoats said:
Stones regularly associated with calculi formation in goats include silicate, calcium (calcium carbonate, calcium oxalate), and phosphate (magnesium ammonium phosphate called struvite). While calculi can form in any geographical region, silicate stones are generally limited to goats grazing forages grown on western pastures that have excess soil silica content. The normal alkalinity found in ruminant urine favors the formation of urinary stones. Reducing the pH to acidify the urine reduces the likelihood of crystal formation. To acidify urine, goats receiving high grain or concentrate diets can be fed ammonium chloride* Ammonium chloride is a salt which also helps in water intake..... Goat urine pH tends to be alkaline but varies with the type of diet and the length of time since eating. Phosphate crystals form more easily in alkaline urine, and silicates in acid urine. Bacteria in urine can produce ammonia that makes the urine pH much more alkaline. Adding ammonium chloride However, the chloride ion itself may cause the goat to drink more water and dilute the urine. This is what ive done 1) Drench with ammonium chloride, 3g/22lbs. 2) Give a shot of acepromazine, if at all possible. 3) Snip the pizzle. 4) Give a shot of banamine, 1ml/100lbs. 5) Give a shot of dexamethasone, 1ml/20lbs. 6) Give a shot of PenG, 1ml/15lbs. Then, I'd: 1) Continue the ammonium chloride for a week. 2) Continue the dexamethasone for about a week, tapering after that. 3) Continue the PenG so long as the Dex is being used. 4) Cut back the grain and add calcium to the diet.

Good stuff. I wonder if you could use ace in pill form?

goathiker

· #12 · Nov 20, 2013

When we had one with UC our vet had us rub very strong AC made for dogs into his gums so it when directly into his bloodstream. Adding more liquid to an overfull bladder isn't really a great idea.

Bambi

Discussion Starter · #13 · Nov 20, 2013

Thank you all for your information. I have learned a great deal. Our vet did cut the tissue around the penis to remove a large stone. I did start him on ammonium chloride even though our vet said it probably wouldn't help in our area. He is on grass hay now and we were feeding a small amount of alfalfa pellets, so I cut those out of his diet. He is doing much better today and I hope he is on his way to recovering. He is able to go pee fine now but he has no control of it yet, the vet said that would take a little time.
Thanks again for the wonderful information. I hope to not go through this again.

happybleats

· #14 · Nov 20, 2013

I would request Banamine..even if he said he doent need it..it wont hurt for him to have it and it will help him recover faster..less pain helps him get around more and eat more..both which would be good for him...

Best wishes

Chopsgoats

· #15 · Nov 20, 2013

There is always something to learn and past experiences dictate how each of handle an emergancy. There are literally dozens and dozens of studies pertaining to UC in goats. Goat hiker pointed out not to give a full bladder water. Correct, but as soon as urine flow begins again water intake is crucial to flush out the bladder and existing crystals that still remain. And the ph balance is important to reduce the formation of more crystals. I am so glad he is recovering

my goats drink water supplied by the city, this is a completely different topic, yet whatever mineral or chemical compound found in the water can also play a roll in the goats urinary tract. My water needs to be filtered extensively .

Bambi

Discussion Starter · #16 · Nov 20, 2013

That is great information Chopsgoats. I wondered if our water had anything to do with it. We have very hard water so maybe I should start filtering it for the goats. He is doing much better each day. He has no control over his bodily fluids now but that is okay as long as he is getting it to come out. This has been a big learning experience and one I hope to not go through again. We have raised dozens of wether through the years without a problem. I guess we were just lucky.

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