What do you think? Alpines

Discussion in 'Dairy Diaries' started by ozarksvalley, Jan 2, 2008.

  1. ozarksvalley

    ozarksvalley New Member

    180
    Nov 22, 2007
    Missouri
    Okay, you all know that I LOVE Nubians. They are my absoloute favorite. But I am thinking about Alpines as I have Alpine does as well. (I've included pics)
    I started out with buying three Alpines at a show. One was a fund raiser kid- kind of like a spotlight sale type thing. The other two were yearling milkers, one was sold "beacause she didn't win." She got 3rd place out of like 10. The other was sold soley because she freshened lopsided. (and not bad either) The lady needed to downsize so those were the two she picked. Both are out of GCH does and a Cream-Of-Kansas buck.
    I do NOT want to sell these girls. I just can't. (hey are now three) I love my Nubians, but the best girls in my barn as far as conformation are my Alpines. My best is Cindy. She is incredibly wide, long and practically perfect except for her mammary. She needs work on fore and rear attachments, as well as a crooked teat. Her udder is still nice, but I am a perfectionist.
    Do you think I should buy an Alpine buck (if I do that I will be searching for one that will hopefully keep the quality or improve the quality of my does) to breed to them and sell the purebred kids, or do you think I should go with a Kiko and keep the kids for meat?

    Here are the girlies:

    Nancy (2nd best girl)
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Cindy as a yearling. She has improved greatly, but you can see her mammary slightly here. She is naturally uphill, this pic she is just throwing a hump there.

    [​IMG]

    Opinions on these girls are greatly appreciated. You can see how wide Nancy is in that one pic, but Cindy is even wider by far than Nancy.
    I could never sell these two girls- their personalities are irrestistable (except when in heat, lol) and they are forever friends.
    Dollie, the two year old, (she is bred, freshen in March) is still dry so I don't know how her udder will turn out. She is looking very nice, maturing more all the time. I'll have to get some pics. Whether or not I keep her soley depends on her udder.

    For now they are all bred to my nubian buck. I don't want to continually do that however, as the kids will not bring a FAIR price just because they are crossed. They will probably be the best kids born on my farm but will go for less than $100 as nobody will buy them.... *sigh* I will probably be keeping a daughter or two to see what kind of udder Shem throws from nice does.
     
  2. ozarksvalley

    ozarksvalley New Member

    180
    Nov 22, 2007
    Missouri
    dug up another pic of Cindy, it's very bad, but it gives you the general idea. Cindy always looks horrible in pictures. *sigh*

    [​IMG]
     

  3. sparks879

    sparks879 New Member

    Well that all depends on what you want to do with them. Would you like to hav e a second dairy breed to sell and show? If yes that means you have to keep at least one extra purebred buck around. Or would you rather just continue to show them not improving on them every year and continueing to market meat kids out of them?
    If you're leaning towards wanting to show and raise alpines then ibviosuly your going to need an alpine buck.
    AS for the does, Cindy apears to be a very long stretchy doe with a nice head and a long pretty neck she apears to have nice flat shoulders and is very sharp in the withers. I would like to see more attachment all the way areound, her foreudder is a bit short and her rear udder isn;t carried very high. Though she does have a pleasing teat size as well as a nice shape to her mammery.
    I can't say much about nancy without a side picture, but from what i can see she is a ver wide doe with a lot of width in the chest. I would like to see her rear udder carried much higher and straighter front legs. She toes out a lot.
    beth
     
  4. fritzie

    fritzie New Member

    751
    Oct 6, 2007
    TENN
    it is so hard to tell from picture & not cliped or set up. there are a couple of things yuou can do. if your alpines are reg & your nubian buck is reg then any doe jkids they have can be reg as experamental/recorded grade. some of the best does in the show have been a recorded grade. the buck kids would not be able to be reg. then if you bred the doe kids back to an alpine & then there doe kids(third generation) would be reg as amertican alpine. just make sure that you get a buck that comes from lines with good mammories. this way you would not need a buck til you are ready to bred the babies & then you will have a buck that you could use on all of you does. hope that made since
     
  5. ozarksvalley

    ozarksvalley New Member

    180
    Nov 22, 2007
    Missouri
    They are both reg and so is my buck. But my point for not wanting to breed them is the kids, even registered, are not desired because they are only RG's. I have been down that road before. I had to continually drop prices on their kids until they were bought. They were nice kids!
    I'm thinking more seriously about getting an Alpine buck. I probably won't keep the kids- just sell them as I like Nubians gentlesness more than the sometimes hyper Alpines. :)
    Thanks for your opionions, I GREATLY appreciated them!
     
  6. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    I say if you can offord it and since your does come out of good lines you say and they certainly can be improved upon go with getting an alpine buck. This way you get more "bang for your buck" as they say. You intentions are to keep breeding them - get the best out of them as you can, it only seems logical.
     
  7. LiddleGoteGurl

    LiddleGoteGurl New Member

    810
    Nov 29, 2007
    WI
    Yes, I agree Kelsey. It might be fun for you to have two breeds, too! I always thought that I wanted to do just Nubians, but I have decided that I am going to keep raising RGs.. especially since my doe's half RG sister took BDIS at the WI State Fair.... :D. Then again there is a really big market around here for bucks for commercial dairies that don't care if they are purebreds.. as long as their dams milk.
    And Cindy is pretty! Give her a year or two. You may end up liking her udder more than you think. And with one or two more kiddings on her she could be really deep and awesome. :D
     
  8. LiddleGoteGurl

    LiddleGoteGurl New Member

    810
    Nov 29, 2007
    WI
    Plus, in the spring when you can clip her and set her up better, and udder her up more it will be even easier to see what she is really like. Same with Nancy.
     
  9. ozarksvalley

    ozarksvalley New Member

    180
    Nov 22, 2007
    Missouri
    I'm thinking seriously about it. As Stacey said, more bang for my buck. I have found some very nice breeders in bordering states.
    I'd like to find a buck that improves the udder- can anyone reccomend a breeder in Missouri or bordering?
    I want to thank every one again for their opinions.
     
  10. sparks879

    sparks879 New Member

    What are some of the herds that you are looking at? I can't think of anyone right off the top of my head in missouri right now, I usually end up shipping my buck kids in from other places. Lately the east coast has had a lot nicer stuff then areound here.
    beth
     
  11. ozarksvalley

    ozarksvalley New Member

    180
    Nov 22, 2007
    Missouri
    Well, they are not in Missouri, but in AR and TN.
    They are MiEsprar (sp?) and Fox Trot. Also know of a lady a few miles away that one of my does' mother cam from- GMK Topgun, if she is still breeding goats. I tried getting a hold of her a long time ago but the phone was never answered. She did have both Nubians and Alpines. She had Kismet, Sand-Dance, and Nodaway lines, and probably more, those are what I am sure of. I will have to try giving her a call again.
    I seen a pic of a Nubian buck she owned- he was incredibly nice and mature for a yearling. He was a Kismet buck.
     
  12. fritzie

    fritzie New Member

    751
    Oct 6, 2007
    TENN
    my lines are mostly chateau brian't in maine with sweet dreams,redwood hills & sandance. i am in tn & will have babies starting in march. you can see pic of my does on my web site.
     
  13. ozarksvalley

    ozarksvalley New Member

    180
    Nov 22, 2007
    Missouri
    Your does are absoloutly gorgeuous! :drool:
    What part of TN are you located in, and how much will you be asking for kids? And do you have any bucks for sale currently?
    I'm still not sure if I will even be able to buy another buck.... but I sure would like to. :)
     
  14. sparks879

    sparks879 New Member

    I really like what i have seen from the sandance herd, of course they don't have a website but the reputation speaks for itself. I used a buck from the sand dance herd a few years ago with outstanding results. Sadly we never got any does out of him.
    I really like Fristsies first Sr. doe on the page, i believe her name is snickers. She is one of my favorites aside from that yearling doe linda that she just sold....LOL I still love that doe fritsie!
    I have also admired the foxtrot herd for a long time. Th Munchin'Hill herd used a foxtrot buck a few years ago named catalyst. If you go to their sr. doe page and look at annie and peek-a-boo they are both daughters of him (those does can also be found on my buck page) <y favorite doe that they have now is a catalyst relitive, constances dam was catalysts half sister. Constance has a beautiful udder that is well attached all the way around. the only thing i would want to change about her is see her tracking a little straighter on her front and rear feet.
    hope this helps a bit
    beth
     
  15. fritzie

    fritzie New Member

    751
    Oct 6, 2007
    TENN
    i am in Waverly TN it is aout 45 min from clarksville.
    beth i think the first doe on my page is buttercup better knowen as squirt. her sire is a sand dance buck.
    i don't have ant bucks for sale right now but will have i am sure once kidding starts. i start all of them at $250 & $300. depending whisch doe they are out of.
    beth i hated to sell those three but you know how it is you can't keep them all.

    do you know jama of southard farm in MO? she has an alpine buck & a couple of lamancha's from me. it takes them about 8 hrs to get here
     
  16. ozarksvalley

    ozarksvalley New Member

    180
    Nov 22, 2007
    Missouri
    No, I don't know her. Does she have a website?
    If you do decide to sell a buck or have some bucklings availible after they kid, let me know, I might be interested. :)

    Beth, I love the sand dance and Munchin Hill herds! One of my does is a great granddaughter of a Sand Dance doe with some other Sanddance stuff but too far back for me to really acknowlege- past great grandparents I forget about them LOL. (Not the two does above- I'm talking about my bred two year old, Dollie)
    I must say though that I like fritzie's does better than alot of the Munchin Hill. :D I can't believe she's CLOSER rather than farther away! LOL

    I am crossing my fingers, I'd like to get an alpine buck, I'm hoping it will work out. (My dad's all for it.... my mom is gonna scream if I bring in another goat, haha! I'll give her a kiss and make her dinner I guess......and do the houshold stuff for a week. ;)
     
  17. sparks879

    sparks879 New Member

    Oh i know we can't keep them all. If i could i would have over a hundred goats :? LOL, I just sold my favorite doe Cally and a yearling named lyric who should go placeds. But the lady is really really nice in fact she is coming back up tomorrow to buy a buck from me and bring me my new buck, Fire. Thankfully she said she would contact me first when cally went up for sale. I will probably end up buying her back someday.
    beth
     
  18. fritzie

    fritzie New Member

    751
    Oct 6, 2007
    TENN
    i am sure i will have bucks for sale once they kid. i usually get half bucks & half does when kidding is done. i will not be keeping any bucks this year for my self so what ever i get they will be for sale.
     
  19. sparks879

    sparks879 New Member

    Thats probably it Fritsie, I can't remember, I know she is a chamoisee with a little white on her. Pretty doe.
    Yes i know what you mean about the munchin Hill herd There are only really the three sr. does that really demand attention and a couple of jr. does. And their buck, rushkin. I really like him.
    This is where the i like individual animals rather then the herd as a whole comes in. I have a small handful out of each herd i like rather then herds.
    beth
     
  20. bigoakfarm

    bigoakfarm New Member

    228
    Oct 5, 2007
    Kentucky
    Beth- You're so right! The first doe on Fritzie's Sr. doe page is Squirt and she is gorgeous! Linda is living here in our herd now and she is hopefully bred to Fritzie's buck, Legacy. Linda is a BIG doe and I'm dying to see her FF udder and of course, I'm hoping for a doe out of her.

    I borrowed Legacy from Emerald Knoll this year but I need to buy my own buck soon. I'm hoping to get a good deal on the right buck in 2008 when I can hopefully find him in Louisville at the ADGA Nationals. I've been reading the ADGA website and breeder websites like mad trying to learn more about specific Alpine bloodlines. This has been a very helpful thread!

    Kristen