What to ask for when you have an autopsy done on a goat?

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by eliya, Dec 10, 2007.

  1. eliya

    eliya New Member

    Unfortunately we lost one of our bucks yesterday morning. :cry: :x :cry: :? He seemed fine the night before and I am not sure what happened to him. He had an issue with parasites a few months ago. We had wormed him per the vets instructions and he was doing much better. Putting on weight, coat getting fluffy again... I was just out with him Saturday and he was looking really good. Then when we went out to do chores Sunday morning, he was stretched out on the ground taking his last breath.

    Anyway, I am not asking you to try and figure out what happened to him as I know there could be a hundred and one different things and most would be internal... So, I am taking him to the vet to see what they can find. The other reason I decided to take him in, is that we had the exact thing happen with a wether the week before (worming and then improvement and then death) :( With that little guy, it was a little harder to tell that nothing really happened to him as the way he was when we found him, he could have been laid on by one of the larger goats or something. I can't remember for the life of me what you call an autopsy on an animal though :oops: So if you could tell me so I don't sound like an 'ignorant goat person' when I call, I would REALLY appreciate it :D

    I am also wondering what exactly I need to ask for when I call the vet. I know someone said that you should ask for the copper level of the liver, but is there anything else you think I need to ask for specifically?

    Thanks in advance for any advice you can give!

    P.S. I HATE all the rain we have had this fall! It gave the worms a real advantage GRRR! :x
     
  2. getchagoat (Julie)

    getchagoat (Julie) New Member

    603
    Oct 5, 2007
    Waco, KY
    It's a necropsy. There should be a normal one they do. I've never had anything extra done. Good for you for finding out what's going on. I'm curious, what was the worming plan your vet put him on? Some vets don't say to do a follow up worming and you have the same issue all over again. And how much is your necropsy? For an adult here, it's $30, directly through the UK lab.
     

  3. eliya

    eliya New Member

    O.k. Now I remember. I don't know how I could have forgotten what to call it.

    The wormer was panacur with a redose 21 days later.

    I have no idea what the necropsy will cost. I really hope it is not too much. I'll let you know when they give me the bill.
     
  4. eliya

    eliya New Member

    Well..... I just talked to the vet and a necropsy is $132!!! Now I need to think about this and see if I can afford it. Or maybe the question is if I could afford NOT to! I have a couple of other goats that we have been struggling with parasites lately (all that rain this fall) and I would hate to lose them if there is something more going on that I can't see. Oh, boy, this is a hard choice. I am thinking I will do it, but I don't know yet. What do you all think?
     
  5. sweetgoats

    sweetgoats Moderator

    Oct 18, 2007
    Peyton CO.
    Eliya,
    I am so sorry to hear about your losses. The only thing I can say is is there a medical college anywhere close? I know they do them a lot cheaper so they have a real subject to study.
    I have never had to have this done, but man that seems kind of hight.
    I am no way trying to guess what happened, but have you had a fecal test done lately at the vet? That would either rule for the parasite overload or not the problem.
    Again I am so sorry for your loss.
     
  6. eliya

    eliya New Member

    Well, the whole thing is kind of a long story, but we haven't had a fecal done on him. In August/September he had scours and we put him on the fenbendazole. The scours cleared up and he started putting weight back on and his coat began to look better. We did another dose of the fenbendazole about 21 days later. He has been improving ever since. His stools were completely normal and he was acting fine on the day before he died. This is why I want to have the vet figure it out. He seemed to be doing so well.
     
  7. sweetgoats

    sweetgoats Moderator

    Oct 18, 2007
    Peyton CO.
    You know. i have a friend that is having a really rough time right now also. She has lost like 5 goats and sheep, in a period of 4 weeks. The vets at CSU are trying to figure it out. Right now they have a clean fecal and the only thing they have come up wit his they are ALL VIT E deficient. ALl her goats. Like all 287 goats. So they are trying to figure how to get the Vit E back up on that many goats.
     
  8. eliya

    eliya New Member

    Wow. That would be hard. I hope this is something simple. Most of the goats are doing really well, but I have a few that have had issues with parasites. Fecal shows hookworms. We have had a ton of rain here this year and I think that that has had a lot to do with it. Hopefully I will be able to get it all under control before I have kids hitting the ground. The ones that have had issues are some kids and a buck from another farm. They are separated from the rest of the herd.
     
  9. eliya

    eliya New Member

    Oh, I have decided to go ahead and have the necropsy done. I think it will make me feel much more at ease and will hopefully help me to figure out what is going on. I am leaving for the vet's office now so I will let you know what happens when I get back!
     
  10. enjoytheride

    enjoytheride New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Humboldt Co Ca
    I know this must be very troubling for you-I'm so sorry for your losses.
    We have the same problem here with vet expences- they are so large that you always have to carefully think about what you can afford to do or no.
    Maybe if you decide not to do the necropsy, you can jump on the next illness of a similar sort right away and have the vet check it out.
    I have heard that panacur is not that good for general worming in a number of places although I use it here on occasion when I do a series of worming.
    Anyway I hope this is the last of your troubles.

    PS Oops- you posted while I was doing this one- good luck with the vet-
     
  11. getchagoat (Julie)

    getchagoat (Julie) New Member

    603
    Oct 5, 2007
    Waco, KY
    Panacur is effective in very few places. What could have happened was it killed some of the worms, but the stronger worms got stronger. And 21 days apart is too far apart. We always worm 2 rounds 7 - 10 days apart. But Teresa does 3 rounds. Both of us don't want 21 days inbetween. The goat has gotten reinfested by that time. I hope your vet figures it out. Good luck.
     
  12. eliya

    eliya New Member

    Thanks Julie!
     
  13. eliya

    eliya New Member

    And enjoytheride, (I didn't see your post until I had posted :D)
     
  14. mystic's_mom

    mystic's_mom New Member

    265
    Oct 5, 2007
    Northern, MN
    So sorry for your loss Eliya!!!

    When you mentioned 'alot of rain' my first thought would be was his chest and abdominal cavities filled with blood? That would mean, you would have wanted the vet to check the liver, heart and lungs for flukes. In smaller ruminants, the flukes will travel where they don't belong (heart lungs) and cause holes there, causing the animal to die suddenly.

    This also could have explained his previous unthriftiness, then improvement. Flukes usually don't present much symptoms. Prevention (Valbazen, or Ivomec Plus (I rotate them) for three consecutive months in spring and fall) is the main 'safe gaurd' against these pesky deadly critters. The wetter the spring and fall, too, the more conscientious you want to be about safeguarding your herd...the effects of an infestation can be devastating!!!

    I hope you were able to figure out why your bucky boy died so suddenly. :wink: :cry:
     
  15. eliya

    eliya New Member

    Well, I got the results of the necropsy back from the vet. She couldn’t see anything wrong. Everything looked normal (heart, lungs etc.). They said they can send some tissue samples to a lab for ‘microscopic testing’. This will cost us another $72. I am not sure what to do. I don’t want to loose another goat if this is something that could kill another of my goats. This guy seemed fine the day before he died. Anyhow, I think I am probably going to go ahead and get the additional testing (which will test for bacteria, virus, and parasites). If I did loose another goat and had to do this all over, I would have to pay the $132 plus the $72 all over again. I just really want to get to the bottom of this as soon as I can. O.k. I think I have talked (or rather typed) myself into getting the additional testing. But that is a lot of money! What do you all think?
     
  16. mystic's_mom

    mystic's_mom New Member

    265
    Oct 5, 2007
    Northern, MN
    Hmmm...I hope they can figure out what went wrong with the other tests...

    Perhaps he simply had a heart attack, aneurism, or clot...and without extensive testing, these often aren't found.
     
  17. sixshooterfarm

    sixshooterfarm New Member

    580
    Oct 18, 2007
    Valley Springs, Ca
    Well I honestly would get it done, it will help you out in the long run. Pay the money now instead of having to pay for more goats later on to replace the ones that died. I honestly think it would be the best thing possible especially since the vet dident find anything obvious, such as a heart problem so there might just be something affecting your whole herd. I hope things get better for you as it seems everyone is having a hard time this year, including me!! Ok good luck!
     
  18. enjoytheride

    enjoytheride New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Humboldt Co Ca
    If it is a bacteria or virus, that is probably the most important thing you can find out. I did read once that a rapid death is frequently enterotoxemia but I would think that the vet might be able to see that in her exam of the gut???
     
  19. eliya

    eliya New Member

    Thanks everyone. I have decided to go ahead and get the microscopic testing. I really want to get to the bottom of this.

    mystic's_mom, those are possibilities, as is what the vet suggested as a possibility - something neurological. If this was just totally out of the blue those would be more likely. BUT we had another goat die with pretty much the same circumstances just a week before. It could be just a coincidence, but it seems pretty strange.

    enjoytheride, I have experienced enterotoxemia before and these goats did not have those symptoms. Usually a goat with entero, appears to be in a lot of pain before they die and often make lots of noise. This guy went quite peacefully. Cocci can cause entero if there is an impaction or something, but the fecal showed very little cocci. Entero also usually kills kids - this buck on Sunday was about a year and a half old. I don't know if the vet could tell by an exam or not, but I really don't think it was entero. Good thought though!
     
  20. cute kids

    cute kids New Member

    196
    Oct 5, 2007
    i'm glad you are getting the microscopics done. yes, a lot of money, but each goat lost is money, too. better to find out, if possible, and not loose more goats. imo, anyway. and what is your peace of mind worth??? the whole event is just really sad.