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Sorry for the long post. I have a whether, HUGE 3 year old dairy bred whether. Well over 200lbs, the height of a Shetland pony. His head comes up to my shoulder (I'm 5'1"). He is sweet mostly. But he bullies my other two does, his mom and sister, who are half his size. He pushes his sister out of everything to the point I have to feed her from a separate hay feeder, the mom fights back when she is really wanting whatever is going on.

He's a fence jumper. A fence destroyer. And destroys objects as well. Thankfully he's never destroyed anything of value, I've been able to fix fences and he's mostly destroyed stuff in my trash pile.

He is also super disrespectful. But only of ME. He's gentle to my mom, visitors, my dad, etc. But he sizes me up regularly. He may be playing (he may not be idk) but he sizes me up, does not respect my space when I say move, and when I get physical to physically move him, he often gets ticked and rears up at me. Thankfully he has never actually rammed me. I'm constantly having to check them to be sure he hasn't gotten out. I live in a pretty residential area. I'm allowed to have the goats but my neighbors are RIGHT THERE. He quite literally stresses me out. But I'm the ONLY ONE who does anything with the goats. My parents go out there to physically be with them once a month maybe, they often pet them over the fence but that doesn't show them anything. Visitors come once in a blue moon. My parents will support me no matter the decision.

I kept him to turn into a cart goat. The boy is STRONG. But he has zero interest. Once he starts pulling something, he falls over an won't get up no matter what until you unharness him. His only interest is eat, sleep and play. His mom is the same way. Treats don't help, he just flat refuses. He does not get phased by water, and it takes forever to flip him because he is so big and strong, and that also doesn't seem to phase him, he just gets up and seems more pissed. I've even resorted to using a trigger snap (which have a rounded end) in his nose when he is really bad. I wish you could put a nose ring on a goat, that might solve it.

There are days I almost walk inside and call my friend to come butcher him (as I never have) but then he walks up and just is a lover and is sweet. It's like he knows.

I am having trouble making that decision. Rehoming isn't an option, as no one wants a fence jumping direspectful goat, and I worry someone won't take care of him before butchering him. He either stays or is butchered.

I've lost 6 goats in 10 years due to bad advice from veterinarians and my heart still breaks thinking about them. Thankfully I've learned from my mistakes. I have trouble SELLING goats, I've only sold 3. Butchering is hard enough. I've harvested chickens and turkeys and ducks, but I guess goats are different. THAT STEP is hard.

Not to mention a friend has so graciously built a huge fenced pasture on leased land directly behind our house, so she can board a horse here and so I can bring mine home and my goats can have pasture. I don't know how he'll behave for her, as she will have to be around him regularly. I find it stupid I can control a horse easier than a goat, but he is harder to control than a dang stallion. I've already said if he gets out of that fence she built he will be butchered (as I won't stress him out by keeping him locked up, because I won't deny the other goats pasture just because he's an escape artist). He definitely will if he sizes her up.

What would others do in this situation? I'm sorry if I sound insensitive, but I'm at my wits end. I have cried so many times over this decision and always decided that it was easier on my heart to keep him. But tonight he was meaner than he ever has been.
 

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I had a Kiko buck like that, super destructive, but well mannered, I sold him, he wouldn't jump fences but if there was space would squeeze under
 

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I think in your heart you know what the right answer is here. But it makes it an easier option with others tellin you what they would do with this guy. My answer... i am absolutely not gonna keep an animal that i cannot turn my back on here. Ever. Period. Me or my family being hurt is not an option because i kept an unruly jerk. He is also stressing the other goats our by his nastiness... nope nope nope. Plus there is the time and work and money involved in mendin fences... we have tons of other things to do than to fret over the next time jerkface wants tear up the fence. Camp kenmore would be his new happy home were he ours. It would have been done before now.
 

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I have a wonderful polite and cuddly buck, and he's going to freezer camp along with two does.
One of those does is going solely because of her bad temper, she's a great mother and a beautiful goat, but I can't turn my back on her, so she is going.
I am considering sending our herd queen as well, simply because she also is very temperamental and harsh on the other goats.
I am simply waiting for the room in the freezer to free up.
The herd queen is to be determined, and will be the last to go, if she goes.
But sending off a goat because of its temper is perfectly valid.
There is no reason to put yourself or others in danger to keep a goat around when he can be useful by feeding your family.
 

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He either stays or is butchered.
Thank you!
:up:

What a story! I guess you have tried to tip him over, most probably not too easy. But why on earth does he not want to pull? He seems to be the opposite of Goat Martin, always kind, letting children pet, pulling also heavy loads with a happy face... I am afraid I do not have much of a tip, he being so big and strong, already having learnt to boss you ... Some kind of bridle?
 

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Honestly any if any of my goats did any one of those things alone they would be gone. It’s a crappy choice to make when on some level you do adore the guy so much. Usually what I have to do when I try to talk myself into keeping something I shouldn’t is remind myself there are so many other goats out there that would fit the bill of what I want or don’t want why deal with a headache? The aggressiveness alone though would have sent any one of mine on a one way trip right on the spot, getting hurt is never worth anything
 

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I agree with the others. If he were mine, he'd go to the freezer.

I've never had a goat that was as poorly behaved as your boy, but I have had goats that I've been exasperated with. One who jumped fences, one who wouldn't let me catch her, one who was too pushy with herdmates, etc. I'd go back and forth on whether or not to keep them- as you say, the good days make you second guess yourself. But at the end of the day, I raise goats because I enjoy it and it makes me happy. Working with my troublemaker animals was not enjoyable, and it did not make me happy. So one by one I sold all the ones I didn't enjoy working with. It was hard to do at the time, but I haven't missed a single one of them. It sounds like your boy is more stress, trouble, and liability than he's worth, but in the end he's your goat and it's up to you how much you're willing to put up with!
 

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It seems as if you have our support. Did I check that you have checked him for pain and other disorders; I think I did?
 

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Gee, I wish I could work with him. He sounds like a handful, but he also sounds amazing if you could channel that power. You say he "falls over" when he's put to a cart? Does he actually fall or does he deliberately throw himself on the ground in a labor strike?

Some goats will act aggressive with certain people (often the one that raised them, particularly if they were bottle raised), but never with anyone else. I know a man who bought a wether a couple of years ago that was attacking the owner, but the wether never offered to attack the man who bought him or his wife or children. That big, horned boy packs gear all over the mountains with kids all around him and has never offered to challenge any of them. The original owner tried and tried but for some reason could do nothing to fix that goat's attitude toward her. Thankfully the goat found a home where he fit in and got along.

I think your boy needs a setup where he's got at least one other big wether he can challenge and knock heads with. He's a bully because he can get away with it. There's no one on his level to spar with and put him in his place. I can almost guarantee that if he were put with a big buck or another big wether, his attitude toward other goats would take a turn for the better.

Unfortunately, you may not be able to make the changes your goat needs in order to thrive. From a purely practical standpoint, freezer camp may be your best option. There are not many people in the world willing and able to take on a "project," and if you sold him it would have to be with full disclosure that this is a high-risk animal with training issues.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Gee, I wish I could work with him. He sounds like a handful, but he also sounds amazing if you could channel that power. You say he "falls over" when he's put to a cart? Does he actually fall or does he deliberately throw himself on the ground in a labor strike?
It's a labor strike. He's very well halter trained. Typically if I'm trying to lead him to pull something, it starts off as him walking a few steps fine, then stops. I try bribing him, he either goes a few more steps and then/or doesn't care, so then I do pressure release on his halter, but typically pressure just causes him to fall over. He'll lay there until all equipment is off then gets up. I've tried leaving him there and watching him from somewhere he can't see me but I can get to him if needed, I've tried just holding pressure till he gets up, he's a stubborn a$$.

Carting, he ground drives mostly fine. After about 10 minutes he just stops and doesn't want to anymore, if he does it at all. With me actually on the cart, he may go a few feet but then just stops, typically does a turn around or freaks out, often resulting a fall over. Him and his mom are the worst about getting to the road, about ten feet down the road, then just falling in the ditch. So embarrassing. I had a fully cart trained doe who passed a few weeks after they were born, I know how to train them, they just have to want to be trained!

Honestly I could see him being a great pack goat, but most wouldn't want to try it. Him being so big can be a liability if it didn't work out. I'm serious when I say he is as tall at his whither as a Shetland pony is. If I liked that kind of thing I would actually do so myself! But I don't live anywhere that that is possible.
 
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