When buying/selling a got, who is responsible for what?

Discussion in 'Goat Frenzy' started by meglio, Nov 22, 2016.

  1. meglio

    meglio New Member

    15
    Jan 26, 2016
    When you buy a goat, what things do you consider the seller should be responsible for, and what things will you take responsibility over after buying the goat?

    For instance, if the seller says the milking volume is usually 3.5 liters, but after kidding you find out that on the peek it is 2 liters the following season, do you consider you are qualified for some reimbursement, money back or compensation? Is this a lie that the seller should be responsible for, or is it something that you should check on your own before buying?

    Should the seller ever take the animal back and charge the money back? If so, in which cases?

    What do you think the seller is obliged to tell about the animal to you before you pay them? Must he tell about all the defects, previous illness cases etc? Or is it optional and up to the seller?

    Our Ukrainian community members have a lot of disagreement about this, so I'm asking your community for your opinion and practice. Many thanks!
     
  2. catharina

    catharina Catharina

    Mar 16, 2016
    Northern California
    I'm not aware of any laws here regarding these things. Some people have written contracts when selling goats though, & that's a very good idea. The contract can say which reasons they will accept for refunding money.

    Milk production--you can look at the pedigree of the doe to see what her potential might be. But do you think changes in feed or other things at the buyer's farm could cause her to produce less milk? I don't have very much serious dairy experience, but I don't think I would guarantee how much milk a goat would produce in the future.

    I sell purebred goats every year & haven't had to take any back. For me, fair reasons to refund money would be illness soon after the sale that may have begun while I still had the goat, or some kind of hidden birth defect discovered after the sale. If someone had paid a deposit for a goat & it was hurt, got sick or died while still in my care, they would get their money returned. I've been lucky so far! I don't think I'd take a goat back if the buyer didn't like its behavior or it got sick a few weeks after they took it home.

    A friend bought a purebred kid & she started coughing a few days after she got her. She talked to the buyer & I think tried some things, but she finally decided to ask to return the goat & the seller agreed. I believe my friend got all of her money returned.

    Here in the US people can have their herds certified as free of certain serious diseases, & if they told me this but the goat turned out to be infected I'd expect my money back. I certainly agree with you that the seller should tell the buyer of any defects they know, & also its health history, what vaccines & wormers have been given, but I'm not sure the seller can be forced to return money if they didn't. The breed I raise very commonly has abnormal teats & although I hate to, I always tell people asking about a doeling if she has extra teats or strangely shaped teats because they can't easily be seen if she's only a few weeks old. Sometimes they don't care because they just want a pet, or feel confident about milking anyway, but sometimes they don't buy her. To me, that's still better than if they buy her & when she grows a bit they see she has odd teats & are unhappy. They might then warn other people not to buy goats from me!

    If someone sells goats all the time they should be concerned with keeping a good reputation for honesty & also healthy goats. Other people with the same breed will eventually hear bad rumors about them if they don't.

    I suspect that people who have goats with problems sometimes send them to an auction, where buyers aren't told much about the animal & nothing about the last owner. After a few days the buyer realizes the goat is unhealthy but they can't get any refund or help at all from the auction place.

    What problems come up when buying & selling goats in Ukraine? Do you usually have written agreements? How do buyers protect themselves--finding sellers through friends or trying to learn about the seller & carefully examining the goat themselves, or bringing an expert along? Are there laws about what the seller must say or do, & when they must return money? It's always interesting to hear how things are done in other places!
     

  3. Jessica84

    Jessica84 Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2011
    California
    That should have been something that was gone over before you purchased the animal. As a seller I don't guarantee anything. It's not that I am shady or anything else it's that once the animal leaves my hands it's out of my control how that animal is raised. Example, if they are going to go home and stake it out in the back yard in the pouring down rain I don't want them to come at me and say hey it's sick I want my money back. I have pretty much everything wrote down to cover everything that they must sign before they take the animal. Again as a seller I would not give you your money back because I don't know how you are managing the animal. So far I have yet to have someone ask to take a animal back. It was close this year. I sold a buck to a gal and she was 4 hours away and temperatures dipped the morning I met her half way and he was loaded fine but had some snot when he showed up. I told her he was fine when I loaded him and to play it safe watch him for being off. The next day she said he was fine but she was worried so I said just give him antibiotics. He turned out fine BUT I would have taken him back and I'll probably never haul a animal for someone again lol
    Now as a person giving advise to you if you want to make sure the animal will produce X amount and the seller says it will then ask for a guarantee in writing. Be warned though I would never sign it so you might have issues with getting someone else to.
     
  4. goatblessings

    goatblessings Fair-Haven Supporting Member

    Jan 5, 2015
    Southwest Ohio
    I'm with Jessica on this. I provide proof of all disease testing, health records, milk records, kidding records. If buyers want a vet check they are free to schedule a vet of their choice to come do this at their expense. I will not ship and ask buyers to come and look at the goat, check out the facilities and ask any questions.

    Because there are so many variables in goat transportation, care and feeding - I do not guarantee after they have left the farm. I cannot control the above and have no idea how the goat has been transported, cared for or fed.

    Milk production also depends on health of the goat - parasite load, mineral deficiency, and very much as to how she is fed. She may well have been producing that much for her past owner.

    I am an honest breeder but I don't want to guarantee what I can't control. I sold a doe in milk this year and the buyer came and watched me milk and noted volume when finished. That way both of you know each is aware of production.

    I've never had a goat returned or an unhappy buyer that I know of. Most people email pics months later......
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2016
  5. KW Farms

    KW Farms Moderator Supporting Member

    Jun 21, 2008
    Wapato, WA
    Signed registration papers and tattoos should be done. Basically anything that was advertised with the goat...if a service memo or something like that was advertised then seller should provide it. It's the buyers responsibility to send in any paperwork.


    Absolutely not! There are so many factors that go into milk production, a seller cannot guarantee any of that.



    I think it comes down to trusting your seller. Are they reputable? If so, then I would trust them. If not, then I wouldn't buy. If you're super concerned with specific production on a doe, then ask for records or a test milking. Some sellers won't care, others may not allow that.




    Most sellers consider a sale final. It would just depend on the circumstances of why the buyer wants to return the animal and what both parties could agree on. A reputable seller will usually work with the buyer if there's some sort of problem.




    I feel it's more on the buyer to ask whatever questions they want to know. The seller should provide basic information and if there is something wrong with the animal, then an honest seller will bring this to the attention of the buyer. Otherwise, if you want to know something, ask!



    Completely up to the seller to decide how they advertise. Honestly, that would be a ton of information and time spent giving every little detail on a goat for sale. I'm all about honestly, but also simplicity. I like ads that are simple and to the point. I don't want to put a ton of details in a sales ad. If the buyer wants to know, again, just ask!
     
  6. Frosty

    Frosty Active Member

    Feb 12, 2010
    Swanzey,NH
    I bought a young buck from someone I thought were good people and got stung pretty bad. I tried to talk to them and they wouldn't even discuss the problems and I told her she was welcome to come down and see him and maybe we could agree on something. She never came down or discussed it with me. The buck is no good to me I am going to have him neutered so I will be out that price also but will not chance him passing a genectic problem on to babies. I want to improve my herd. I am biting the bullet this time but I sure would not recommend anyone buying from them and if I see something with their name on the paper work I refuse to even look at the goat.
     
  7. Jessica84

    Jessica84 Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2011
    California

    And what you just stated is why some seller will refund the money. I've never been in a situation where I've had to even think about refunding money but pretty much sales are final, no guarantee. NOW depending on the problem and how they come at me, say you come at me politely and it is clear that you have taken care of the animal it's just no good, then I would probably offer something I thought was fair for both parties, maybe a refund or maybe a trade in I'm not sure.....I hope I will never know lol
     
  8. JK_Farms

    JK_Farms Well-Known Member

    Nov 11, 2016
    Tennessee
    I bought this alpine/Saanen cross a long time ago. The seller was a family friend so of course I trusted him. Well the problem was I bought the goat knowing she was thin but she seemed 100% healthy so I bought her. I realized quickly that she still needed to be on her mom she had the strongest suckle ever (stronger than my the 1 month old kid) luckily I took her straight home away from mu pregnant goats and I'm thankful I did cause 5 days later at night I went to give her her bottle and she was acting so strange. She lifted her head wasn't crying in pain or anything she started to go blind and couldn't walk straight so at this point I'm mad not at because I bought a sick goat because she was the sweetest thing and deserved better. Well I found out it was polio and by then it was too late! So my mom talked to my family member about it and it got to the seller and he said he was going to reimburse us for it and never showed up.