When should I deworm my expecting does??

Discussion in 'Goat Management' started by ruedyranch, Feb 3, 2011.

  1. ruedyranch

    ruedyranch New Member

    67
    Jan 14, 2011
    I am wondering what the best time to deworm would be. Everything I've read is different. We have Boers and a couple of Saanens due to kid in March. The breeder of our buck said she does it within 8 hours of kidding and the breeder where we got the does said we should do it a week before they are due. I do know that we should not use Valbazin before they deliver but someone also said to use the injectible Ivomec but give double the calf dose orally. Any suggestions? :ponder:
     
  2. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    With my Boers..... I worm them with ....Ivomac injectable 1cc per 33 lbs....I put it down their throat.... not inject it.... at this time.....I do this ...1 month prior to their kidding dates.....You are correct...Valbezen is not safe for preggo Does..... :thumb:
     

  3. Desert Viking Ranch

    Desert Viking Ranch New Member

    54
    Jan 17, 2011
    Arizona
    SC injection is the recommended way to administer any medications to goats and pour-on would be the least recommended with oral being in between. I am not sure how you could possibly guess and give dewormer within 8 hours of kidding and I would be skeptical of that answer (just me being me). Unless your does have worm issues (check their inner eye membrane compared to the FAMACHA chart) I would refrain from giving a dewormer. This is due to worms inevitably being able to resist whatever you give them. Over time you will find that one product no longer works and unfortunately there are really only two approved dewormers that can be used without a vet prescription legally (although many can still be purchased and used over the counter, they are considered off-label or extra-label). Because of this it is important to use dewormers at full strength and consistently (do not mix dewormers) in order to rid worms completely, and make sure you do the follow up treatments until no longer needed. It is important to stick with one dewormer until it is no longer effective before switching otherwise worms will develop concurrent resitance to many demowormers at once. Once worms are down to manageable levels (or pretty much gone) allow the goats to go without. Pasture rotation is also a good technique although in winter months it is harder to do because most dry lot due to the weather.

    If your does do have heavy worm loads right now the best time is typically 30 days prior to kidding, the same with vaccinations and I double agree do NOT given Valbazen to pregnant does :)

    It is my opinion that this is not a good or safe practice as injectables are not designed to go through a goats digestive tract and could harm them over the long run. Especially since ivermectin is for cattle but commonly used off-label for goats which means it hasn't been fully tested and approved as "safe" (again, vet prescription/written recommendation mitigates this)
     
  4. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    My vet says to give ivermecting orally and it works well. You just have to give a higher dosage due to the fact the goats metabolize faster.

    Thankfully since I don't over use wormers (only worm as needed not "just because") ivermectin still works for me while in other areas of the country over use has made it none effective for most livestock. Cydectin is then your next option.

    Valbazen can be used after kidding and that's when I personally worm my goats if there is a need.

    My :2cents:
     
  5. Desert Viking Ranch

    Desert Viking Ranch New Member

    54
    Jan 17, 2011
    Arizona
    My main reason behind not giving injectable orally is simply because the medication leaves the body in a matter of hours typically. Injecting it allows for the medication to stay in the body longer (a few days) so it can fully work its purpose.

    Giving Cydectin orally I hear is even worse as it apprently has some gasoline derivative in it (not sure where I heard or read this but it was something like that). Anyone know any more about it?
     
  6. ruedyranch

    ruedyranch New Member

    67
    Jan 14, 2011
    So I shouldn't just automatically deworm? I have been told that worms can get really out of control after kidding because of the hormone flux. I don't know that I really am skilled enough yet to go solely on the Famacha system.
     
  7. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    I have been doing this method for over 10 years ....and my Does are not resistant to the Ivomac wormer..... When Does kid out...it is a major stress load on them ...in which... can trigger worms... to explode ...I give them... this once a year....at kidding time...I will hit them 10 days later.... if I know.... they have a heavy load...if not..... they only get it once..... I don't want my Does... to lose condition ...early on... after kidding...... which their babies suffer....this is the way.... I have been doing it.... and I will continue...look at my goats... and tell me ...they are resistant to wormers ...... after doing this for over 10 years... :shrug:

    I agree... that using the dosage properly is important.... it is better to under dose.... than over dose.... and repeat... if you know..... they have a worm load...showing signs or from a fecal test... :wink:


    My vet instructed.... that giving it down the throat works well with goats.....it may be off label... but remember.... alot of drugs are... for goats ...as goats are kinda ignored by alot of vets ..as they don't or didn't learn much about them....now ....they are kinda forced.....and the goats are growing in popularity... and...are being shoved ...by hand fulls... to the vets... and they have no ideas ....on how to treat them ....in so many ways..... Alot of us old timer and younger... goat breeders ..had to learn the hard way... by trial and error.. :( ....because vets.... just didn't know what to do.....I even taught a vet a few things..... :wink: so ....I do not rely..... totally on vets ever.......I come here and learn the right way....there are alot of very smart goats breeders here.... that have alot of know how.... and I am sorry but......do not agree with some of your insite....or your vets..... this is just my opinion... and :2cents: :2cents: :D
     
  8. logansmommy7

    logansmommy7 New Member

    925
    Nov 11, 2009
    Shenandoah Valley, VA
    My vet instructed me to worm with Cydectin and that it was safe for preggo does. I don't know if it was coincidence or not (needless to say I'm not ever giving it to a preggo doe again) because one of my girls aborted. Not good...the others held their pregnancies. They haven't kidded yet, but hopefully we will have healthy babies! I just wouldn't use Cydectin on preggo girls. The data is conflicting about whether or not it is safe though.
     
  9. Desert Viking Ranch

    Desert Viking Ranch New Member

    54
    Jan 17, 2011
    Arizona
    Learned experience through years of successful practice and trial & error always seem to hold weight; it's hard to deny what works :D

    I am glad this forum represents multiple opinions in a constructive manner.
     
  10. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    :thumbup:

    My mom raised standard dairy goats for years while I was a kid...even then the only time I ever recall her giving any wormer was when the lids were pale or they seemed unthrifty, I started raising my own goats a little more than 10 years ago and at that time I had no vets around at all, my management was through trial and error, thankfully, having access to the knowledge of others and FINALLY finding a vet 3 years ago that knew something about goats has been the reason why my herd is healthy now. I personally have used ivermectin paste only when needed the last 4 years and thats been when a fecal was run because of pale lids.
     
  11. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Yep...you never know...I am sorry ...one aborted on you... very sad.... :( :hug:

    We may agree to disagree .....what works for one ....may not work for the other...... so.... we kinda have to tinker around with solutions sometimes........ if we try other options... it is trial and error....or success... because of .....off label products..... not labeled for goats... :wink:

    I will still stick to...me guns ...and continue how... my goats do with my worming schedule.... with no losses or immunities so far.... :p :hug: :thumb: :wink:
     
  12. ()relics

    ()relics New Member

    258
    Dec 25, 2010
    Indiana
    I give Ivomec Sheep Drench .08%, orally. The goats are fasted with only water for 12 hours before treatment, and then only animals that fall above my EPG parameters are treated. The best time to deworm a doe is 1-2 days after kidding. Her body is at its weakest and therefore ripe for a parasite bloom. If you think about it after a doe kids she really doesn't eat too much right away anyway. So I do a FEC on all my expecting does. I decide which ones will be given a dewormer then after they kid I remove the hay and feed from their pen for 12 or so hours then Deworm them...I would only ever SQ a dewormer in a goat if you are treating for biting lice...Just they way I do things...Cydectin IS gasoline...the method I use eliminates the chance of the deworming agent causing a aborted kid
     
  13. Desert Viking Ranch

    Desert Viking Ranch New Member

    54
    Jan 17, 2011
    Arizona
    Right after kidding seems to be a common agreed upon time to deworm and the basis makes perfect sense. One question though, by removing feed for 12 hours doesn't that effect the mother's strength for nursing/milk production?
     
  14. ()relics

    ()relics New Member

    258
    Dec 25, 2010
    Indiana
    You can use your own judgement but I really don't think they do much eating for a day at least after kidding...Or you could leave a little hay for them to nibble on. The principle being if their rumen is full of feedstuff when you deworm them, the deworming agent could be absorbed by the contents and sent on out of the body without being itself absorbed. Empty rumen means almost immediate dewormer absorption with little chance for it to be shuffled out before it has a chance to work.
     
  15. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    oh mine eat a lot after kidding -- I would never with hold feed from a doe who is taking care of her kids. To me to do that for the mom and kids is a recipe for disaster!
     
  16. FunnyRiverFarm

    FunnyRiverFarm New Member

    Sep 13, 2008
    Hudson, MI
    I deworm the day they kid. I do not give dewormer to them during pregnancy (esp. in the 1st 2 months) unless it is shown by a fecal exam that they need it.
     
  17. kitten6500

    kitten6500 New Member

    69
    Dec 31, 2010
    This thread has been very interesting for a newbie like me! :) I LOVE all the information being presented here... Thanks!
     
  18. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    I agree...mine are pigs right after kidding and I as well .....do not ...keep feed from them.... at that time...... it is crucial ...... :hi5:
     
  19. firelight27

    firelight27 Hopelessly Addicted

    Apr 24, 2009
    Southern Oregon
    I worm does after they finish kidding and have a little time to rest and bond with her babies. I don't worm during pregnancy at all. I worm everyone in the fall before I begin breeding, and then worm everyone as they kid (and worm bucks and open does during this time period.) I worm kids at four and eight weeks old with two different types of wormers. I know that people worry about building resistance and what not, but youngsters are much more susceptible to worms than adults and they can really wreak havoc on babies and can stunt growth severely. I will worm again at 12 weeks only if their eyelids are more pale than I'd like to see, but I also do preventative cocci treatments at 3 and 6 weeks as well, just in case.
     
  20. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    That's why... I deworm a month prior to kidding..... it helps ...the kids for a little while... until... I worm them... when they are a little older... after they are born..... it seems to work well for my Girls...and kids :wink: