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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Why is it that herbal dewormers have to be used preventatively unlike chemical dewormers?

So if I understand this properly, when chemical wormers are administered they lower the worm load, and then leave the goat's system leaving the goat with no lasting protection. You then worm again when their condition/FAMACHA/fecal tells you they need it again.

Now why is this not the case with herbs? Why couldn't we use acute herbal dewormer dosage only when the goat had a worm load that dictated it was necessary and not give them the herbs all the time? Why can't we use herbs just like chemicals?
 

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You COULD dose herbs only when the worm load is heavy enough to cause issues, but I would rather not be dosing my goats with herbs every two hours, several days in a row, to get rid of a heavy worm load. I think the logic there is that it's easier to give goats herbs, say, twice a week, as a maintenance dose, than multiple times a day for a very sick animal. The way it was explained to me is that chemical dewormers are formulated to stay in an animal's system for longer, and are highly potent, so you don't have to use them as frequently. Herbs are processed more like food, and don't stay in the system as long, so that's why it's necessary to dose more frequently. I'm sure there are more facets to this, but I'm still learning, and that explanation made sense to me.
However, in humans, you don't just keep taking herbs 'in case' you get sick. You only take them when you need them. It's also easier to know when a person needs them, because we can talk. :)
Human systems are obviously quite different than goats', but I have been brainstorming ways where I could let my goats 'self medicate' with herbs. There are several herbs I can grow here that act as dewormers, and I've been thinking of how I could grow them in a location where the goats could eat them when they needed them. My theory is that the goats would probably develop the habit of taking what they need, when they need it. And then I could keep chemical dewormers as well as the premixed herbal dewormers on hand in case I needed to dose a really serious problem. I'm probably several years out still from being able to experiment with this, but it's a thought...
 

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It's always better to prevent than treat. Goats don't show illness or high levels of worms until they are pretty bad...many times that can be too late. So we prevent. Herbs are amazing for both prevention and treating but treatment is more intense as mentioned above. When a goat is critical that can be too overwhelming for not just the farmer but the goat.
 

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Keep in mind as well that herbs that address parasites are also good food that nourishes the body. I can honestly say my goats are healthier and deal with less illness and parasite issues. Kids thrive. It's a win win
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks everyone for the responses. I figured it was probably just a matter of prevention being better for the animal than trying to cure them.

I just wish I could get it the herbs to work well for me. My doe that I just treated acutely with herbs for barberpole had an EPG of 600 before treatment and now has a count of 850 ten days after treatment began. I would love to not treat chemically, but I don't think I have an option anymore. My other doe's count has doubled in the past ten days too 😩.
 

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It can be a battle. Do you give wild orange essential oil. It has shown scientifically to cause BP eggs to deform and be unable to hatch..those that did happen to hatch died. It takes time to make that circle of killing them off but once it happenes you have better control over BP population. The other thing we do is rake rake rake the goat pens. Keep as much poop picked up. Large pastures are less likely to be a huge issue but smaller areas can quickly be over run. I hope this helps. 😇
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I do give orange. Nothing I do seems to help. I even added the garlic ginger paste that LOH recommends on their website. Maybe next year I should have my does kid in January and February instead of March when it's starting to warm up. My bucks and kids don't seem to be having trouble like my does are.
 

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I'm sorry nothing seems to be working for you. That's frustrating.
 

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I find that natural deworming works best when we use multi-faceted methods.

So herbal deworming mixes (to be honest, at this point I am recommending to never be without GI Soother. LOH vs DWA doesn't matter to me but either one needs to be used with GI Soother) are your first step. Personally I get the most benefits in 3 days on 4 days off regimens.

Essential oils, all the ones that happybleats mentioned. But again, I actually have to keep that 3 days on 4 days off in really wormy seasons.

Garlic every day.

Oak leaves and pumpkin seeds (pumpkin seeds were really a game changer)

Copper boluses

Additionally, I am not opposed to WormClear by HomeoPet or Cena 30cc added to water buckets during moon cycles for a homeopathic aspect, nor am I opposed to adding this tincture when it seems that protozoa really need to be hit hard: https://www.amazon.com/Amber-Techno...chi+free&qid=1619127171&s=pet-supplies&sr=1-5

Try to diversify the plants offered and fresh foods as opposed to just the deworming mixes. I don't advise straight wormwood being fed in large quantities, but check out the rest of the ingredients, as these can definitely be fed!

GoatHiker mentioned an interesting plant in an old thread, and another plant similar has anthelmintic properties: https://www.arcjournals.org/pdfs/ijmpnp/v1-i2/8.pdf

Cathy, something to think about. The below plant, Crowsfoot, Herb Robert, etc. is an invasive weed in most of the country. If you can find it, boil partial crushed roots and plant together for 5 minutes, pour into jar and let seep for several hours. Pour tea into water bucket or drench. I'm still am working on amounts but, you can't poison anything with it. It's completely safe even during pregnancy.
It cures bleeding ulcers, bleeding intestines, etc. when used internally. I'm working with it to see how well it solves ulcers left from cocci and Barber Pole.
Also cures small tumors even caused by cancer.
I would also add that great success can be seen from garlic barrier which is the most concentrated form of garlic you can find. Garlic Barrier - Deworming of Sheep

But maybe you also just need some management changes, something could just be working against your natural deworming.
 

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Man, I hear you @MellonFriend ! Dealing with recently freshened does/does in milk is hard! There is just such a strain on their systems during this time. I am by no means expert, but I have found that it really helps to feed the highest quality feed I possibly can when a doe is just fresh. If I have hay that is high percentage alfalfa, or if I can get a few bales of straight alfalfa, I like to begin gradually mixing that in during the last stages of pregnancy to give them extra protein. It's harder to keep up with minerals during this time. Copper and selenium are big ones I have to watch. Usually selenium in mid pregnancy and copper in late pregnancy/early lactation.
I also do pasture rotation, so the goats will be on one pasture for a few weeks, then when they've eaten down the available forage there, I move them to a fresh spot. I feel that helps keep worms under control, in addition to giving them access to as much fresh forage as possible. That's one reason I like freshening in the spring. They can get access to fresh food, and I think that's very helpful. Plus, I am just not set up to cope with kidding in the dead of winter...hats off to those who do!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Great information there @NigerianDwarfOwner707, thanks so much for all that. 😀 It's great to see all the natural options laid out.

@Caileigh Jane Smith, thank you for your advice too. I think nutrition is something I'm struggling right now with. Maybe getting that straightened out would help me too. I'll probably post a new thread on that subject.
 
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